Old New's to You But New New's To Me

[BlkHoneyLuv2U]

I did not know that Paul Crouch was accused of having a homosexual escapade back a few years ago. I was looking for information on this Ted Haggard, (Never heard of him before this scandal) and just happened upon this article, I've copied part of it here.
According to a September 12, 2004 Los Angeles Times story, Paul Crouch, president of Trinity Broadcasting Network, paid Enoch Lonnie Ford $425,000 in 1998 in exchange for his silence about an alleged homosexual affair they’d had in 1996 at a TBN-owned cabin near Lake Arrowhead, California. As Advocate.com reported
TBN denied Crouch had had a homosexual affair, but confirmed the hush money paid to Ford under a “secret agreement.” Why would Crouch pay hush money -- under a “secret agreement” -- if there were nothing to hush up?

The link for the full article is here.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1406.shtml

ETA: This is the link for the full story

http://www.trinityfi.org/press/latimes03.html

 

[live2bgr8]

I don't even want to go there... I'm tired of hearing "this one fell or that one fell..." True or not-- All we as followers of Christ can do is follow Christ-- not man.

 

[star]

Not sure if I belive this one. Typically if it get out it really gets out and no amount money can stop the press.

 

[Shimmie]

Hi LadyDee, it also news to me. I have to 'grow-up' and just realize that it's the times we live in. Some stories will be true and some will be untrue. I can see the devil trying to cast doubt ... much doubt in the body of Christ.

All it takes is one 'fallen' man in the Garden to bring judgment and scrutiny to all of us. Afterall, it began with Adam. If you notice, God didn't react until Adam ate of the fruit given to him by Eve (who ate it first). It's not the temptor or the accuser who gets the negative press or the repercussions; it's always the man whom God entrusted with His word.

Hmmmmmmm, I don't see anyone coming down on the Mark Jones guy (who outted Ted Haggard), instead it's all on Ted. It's not the guy who 'accused' Paul Crouch, instead Paul Crouch is the one press comes after.

Hmmmmm, now I wonder why that is? Nothing hits the fan, until they name the man, who fell into the hand of the enemy's plan.

Seems unfair that those who set the trap, never get the slap... Hmmmm?

God's word has a purpose..."Resist the devil and he will flee FROM you." And when they come to accuse you, they will find nothing....

For God has set man as the leader and to be held accountable for his choices and decisions. When he falls, there is a consequence.

Thanks Ladydee, Just like you, I'm tired of all of this mess too. When do we hear of the Leaders who choose NOT to fall? I know they exist. They are not obsolete, nor are they extinct, though it would seem so.

But that's what the devil wants ... an extinction of solid, good standing leading men and women of God. He's not winning this battle. For if you notice, he can only come up with 1, 2 or 3 at a time who fell.

That's because we're not giving up our ground and we are still standing strong and stronger than ever before. To God be all the Glory...Amen.

{{{{ Loving Hugs to you, Pretty Lady }}}

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

Hi LadyDee, it also news to me. I have to 'grow-up' and just realize that it's the times we live in. Some stories will be true and some will be untrue. I can see the devil trying to cast doubt ... much doubt in the body of Christ.

All it takes is one 'fallen' man in the Garden to bring judgment and scrutiny to all of us. After all, it began with Adam. If you notice, God didn't react until Adam ate of the fruit given to him by Eve (who ate it first). It's not the temptor or the accuser who gets the negative press or the repercussions; it's always the man whom God entrusted with His word.

Hmmmmmmm, I don't see anyone coming down on the Mark Jones guy (who outted Ted Haggard), instead it's all on Ted. It's not the guy who 'accused' Paul Crouch, instead Paul Crouch is the one press comes after.

Hmmmmm, now I wonder why that is? Nothing hits the fan, until they name the man, who fell into the hand of the enemy's plan.

Seems unfair that those who set the trap, never get the slap... Hmmmm?

God's word has a purpose..."Resist the devil and he will flee FROM you." And when they come to accuse you, they will find nothing....

For God has set man as the leader and to be held accountable for his choices and decisions. When he falls, there is a consequence.

Thanks Ladydee, Just like you, I'm tired of all of this mess too. When do we hear of the Leaders who choose NOT to fall? I know they exist. They are not obsolete, nor are they extinct, though it would seem so.

But that's what the devil wants ... an extinction of solid, good standing leading men and women of God. He's not winning this battle. For if you notice, he can only come up with 1, 2 or 3 at a time who fell.

That's because we're not giving up our ground and we are still standing strong and stronger than ever before. To God be all the Glory...Amen.

{{{{ Loving Hugs to you, Pretty Lady }}}

Truer words were never spoken. Thanks Shimmie.

It's really sad. Our spiritual leaders are under such assault. The devil thinks he smells blood in the water. It doesn't sway my faith in any way because for every one of our leaders who fall on the wayside, there are hundreds of God's soldiers behind them ready to stay the course.

Lately, some have become persuaded to question and doubt their faith, believing the constant media attention towards the errors of our leaders must mean something is wrong. The Devil knows this and revels in it. This will cause infighting among us and dissension These leaders of large congregations are prime targets because they influence many people and if they fall ,there are a greater number of disillusioned people ripe for the picking.

 

[gn1g]

yes it was discussed briefly on tom joyner and of course they made jokes about Paul CROUCH last name.

 

[LovetheLord]

Before you began to read this let me first mention that I am not casting stones...

If this offends you then I will turn to what Jesus, our Lord and Savior says often in the Word, he who has ears to hear let him hear...

I don't want to be rude or tacky, but why are we discussing this man's affairs? We need to pray for those who are seeking the Father with a pure heart. I don't know who Paul Crouch is or what he has or has not done. I have not even heard of this story until I looked on this forum ("Christian Discussion"). I hope that we on this forum are not gossipping about this man's life. I do believe that we must adhere to a higher standard. Of course the media is trying to make Christians and the Father look foolish. They want to make Chrisitans seems like hypocrytes.

Let's look at one of God's commandments....

Exd 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Gossip is such a serious matter that God included the avoidance of it as one of His Commandments. When we repeat something we heard from someone else, or share a story where we're not 100% certain the facts are correct, or even share information about another person that will only bring them harm and not good, we are bearing false witness against them. Since the second greatest commandment is "Love your neighbor as yourself," we would be breaking that one as well by gossiping. Would we gossip about ourselves to others? If not, then why commit that act against your neighbor?

The only reason I say this is because we all as Christians fall into this. We may not intend harm, but in the end how does God see it? God commanded us not to gossip and to love our neighbors as ourselves, spreading this type of news about anyone is not loving them. Like I said before, I am in no way judging anyone here. I am strictly saying what the Bible already teaches us. I have recently found out that I do gossip - eventhough I don't feel I do it intentionally to harm someone. It hurts to find out that you have done something that is not pleasing to the Lord. What I have decidd to do is keep negative and seemingly positive comments about someone else's life to myself. As a sister in the Lord Jesus I had to share this, especially when I see so many of his children doing it.

Remember The Lord said, if you love me you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

Follow this link it talks more about gossip or you can do a search in google:

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/gossip.html

I just feel that we need to please God in everything we do, I just want to remind us all of this. We all fall victim of gossipping, including me, it is something we don't think is really sin when we do it. I am not attacking anyone, I am just trying to be a "light".

Next time any of us hears gossip lets try to avoid it or change the subject.

Spoken in Love
(sorry so long)
(sorry about any typos)

 

[live2bgr8]

Before you began to read this let me first mention that I am not casting stones...

If this offends you then I will turn to what Jesus, our Lord and Savior says often in the Word, he who has ears to hear let him hear...

I don't want to be rude or tacky, but why are we discussing this man's affairs? We need to pray for those who are seeking the Father with a pure heart. I don't know who Paul Crouch is or what he has or has not done. I have not even heard of this story until I looked on this forum ("Christian Discussion"). I hope that we on this forum are not gossipping about this man's life. I do believe that we must adhere to a higher standard. Of course the media is trying to make Christians and the Father look foolish. They want to make Chrisitans seems like hypocrytes.

Let's look at one of God's commandments....

Exd 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Gossip is such a serious matter that God included the avoidance of it as one of His Commandments. When we repeat something we heard from someone else, or share a story where we're not 100% certain the facts are correct, or even share information about another person that will only bring them harm and not good, we are bearing false witness against them. Since the second greatest commandment is "Love your neighbor as yourself," we would be breaking that one as well by gossiping. Would we gossip about ourselves to others? If not, then why commit that act against your neighbor?

The only reason I say this is because we all as Christians fall into this. We may not intend harm, but in the end how does God see it? God commanded us not to gossip and to love our neighbors as ourselves, spreading this type of news about anyone is not loving them. Like I said before, I am in no way judging anyone here. I am strictly saying what the Bible already teaches us. I have recently found out that I do gossip - eventhough I don't feel I do it intentionally to harm someone. It hurts to find out that you have done something that is not pleasing to the Lord. What I have decidd to do is keep negative and seemingly positive comments about someone else's life to myself. As a sister in the Lord Jesus I had to share this, especially when I see so many of his children doing it.

Remember The Lord said, if you love me you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

Follow this link it talks more about gossip or you can do a search in google:

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/gossip.html

I just feel that we need to please God in everything we do, I just want to remind us all of this. We all fall victim of gossipping, including me, it is something we don't think is really sin when we do it. I am not attacking anyone, I am just trying to be a "light".

Next time any of us hears gossip lets try to avoid it or change the subject.

Spoken in Love
(sorry so long)
(sorry about any typos)

AMEN! That's what I was trying to say... All we can control is our own personal walk.

 

[pebbles]

Well, this is a forum to discuss Christian issues, so these things will be discussed. I do not take this as gossiping about people, but all things done in darkness will come to light.

John 3:19-21 says: "Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light, because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

The point that should be taken from all the scandal is that we must model our Christian walk after Jesus Christ. Men will continue to disappoint us.

Believe me, everything wrong done by Christians will be exposed, and it will be talked about. When the world discusses it they do so with glee, but when we talk about it we can express disappointment and offer prayers for the sinner and encouragement to our brothers and sisters who may stumble because of a leader who has stumbled.

Be blessed. :Rose:

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

Well, this is a forum to discuss Christian issues, so these things will be discussed. I do not take this as gossiping about people, but all things done in darkness will come to light.

John 3:19-21 says: "Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light, because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

The point that should be taken from all the scandal is that we must model our Christian walk after Jesus Christ. Men will continue to disappoint us.

Believe me, everything wrong done by Christians will be exposed, and it will be talked about. When the world discusses it they do so with glee, but when we talk about it we can express disappointment and offer prayers for the sinner and encouragement to our brothers and sisters who may stumble because of a leader who has stumbled.

Be blessed. :Rose:

ITA! How can an issue be properly addressed if we are not able to discus and if necessary, rally. It is imperative that we inform each other of satan's ingenuitive strategies. The possibility of succumbing to temptation / weakness is something EVERY Christian faces. Our Christian brothers in crisis could just as easily be the sisters. (I believe the women are under assault too but thats for a different thread) The greater the power. The greater the scrutiny. Believe me when I say that the men are among the first lines of defense. If those 'walls' are breached, the devil will come after the women with the same ferocity.

The sensibility that everyone just needs to "mind" their own is one reason why things have become so 'changed'. If you are only concerned about yourself, you are isolated and if you are isolated then you are divided and more susceptable to temptation.

Remember that Satan tempts to sin gradually. As the husbandman digs about the root of a tree, and by degrees loosens it, and at last it falls. Satan steals by degrees into the heart: he is at first more modest: he did not say to Eve at first, Eat the apple; no, but he goes more subtly to work; he puts forth a question. Hath God said? Sure Eve, thou art mistaken; the bountiful God never intended to debar one of the best trees of the garden. Hath God said? Sure, either God did not say it; or if he did, he never really intended it. Thus by degrees he wrought her to distrust and then she took of the fruit and ate. Oh, take heed of Satan's first motions to sin, that seem more modest. He is first a fox, and then a lion'. I dont know why folks expect satan to announce his intentions like it's a press release for a new Puff daddy video.

If you believe that it takes a village to raise a child then as members of 'God's community, we should also take a hand in helping our brother and sister. I am so thankful for the strangers who've helped me along the way when they didnt have to but only asked that I remember God's teachings when the next man comes along and needs my help.

 

[Shimmie]

ITA! How can an issue be properly addressed if we are not able to discus and if necessary, rally. It is imperative that we inform each other of satan's ingenuitive strategies. The possibility of succumbing to temptation / weakness is something EVERY Christian faces. Our Christian brothers in crisis could just as easily be the sisters. (I believe the women are under assault too but thats for a different thread) The greater the power. The greater the scrutiny. Believe me when I say that the men are among the first lines of defense. If those 'walls' are breached, the devil will come after the women with the same ferocity.

The sensibility that everyone just needs to "mind" their own is one reason why things have become so 'changed'. If you are only concerned about yourself, you are isolated and if you are isolated then you are divided and more susceptable to temptation.

Remember that Satan tempts to sin gradually. As the husbandman digs about the root of a tree, and by degrees loosens it, and at last it falls. Satan steals by degrees into the heart: he is at first more modest: he did not say to Eve at first, Eat the apple; no, but he goes more subtly to work; he puts forth a question. Hath God said? Sure Eve, thou art mistaken; the bountiful God never intended to debar one of the best trees of the garden. Hath God said? Sure, either God did not say it; or if he did, he never really intended it. Thus by degrees he wrought her to distrust and then she took of the fruit and ate. Oh, take heed of Satan's first motions to sin, that seem more modest. He is first a fox, and then a lion'. I dont know why folks expect satan to announce his intentions like it's a press release for a new Puff daddy video.

If you believe that it takes a village to raise a child then as members of 'God's community, we should also take a hand in helping our brother and sister. I am so thankful for the strangers who've helped me along the way when they didnt have to but only asked that I remember God's teachings when the next man comes along and needs my help.

Words of power, "Hath not God said?".......

How many have tested the waters and fallen in.......?

Thus He has made us 'fishers of men....' 'the blood in the waters'.

 

[LovetheLord]

Well, this is a forum to discuss Christian issues, so these things will be discussed. I do not take this as gossiping about people, but all things done in darkness will come to light.

John 3:19-21 says: "Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light, because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

The point that should be taken from all the scandal is that we must model our Christian walk after Jesus Christ. Men will continue to disappoint us.

Believe me, everything wrong done by Christians will be exposed, and it will be talked about. When the world discusses it they do so with glee, but when we talk about it we can express disappointment and offer prayers for the sinner and encouragement to our brothers and sisters who may stumble because of a leader who has stumbled.

Be blessed. :Rose:

I am not here to put anyone down or seem righteous in my own right!

But I must let you know this...

First of all John 3:19-21 has nothing to do with Jesus or Christians exposing people's wrong doings to the world. (Jesus exposing our own evil doings to our own hearts) Sometimes we all take verses out of context, instead of reading the entire chapter or even one or two verses above it. See at the beginning of the Chapter where Nicodemus questions being born again. The meaning of John 3:19-21 has to do with our acceptance or rejection of Jesus in our lives (just to summarize, there's a lot more in it than that but I didn't want to be too much more wordy). Remember Jesus is the light (John 8:12). So the light referred to in the verses is Jesus (go up a couple of verses and you can see he is talking about himself, maybe v 16 or 17).

Secondly, let's look at the deinition of gossip

The American Heritage Dictionary defines gossip as:

1. Rumor or talk of a personal, sensational, or intimate nature.
2. A person who habitually spreads intimate or private rumors or facts.
3. Trivial, chatty talk or writing.

Now unless we actually know beyond a shadow of a doubt, meaning we were there, I consider it gossip.

All I am saying is we need to be careful and make sure we are in line with God. And that is done by reading and knowing his word - not just by going on our feelings.

Pro 14:12There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.

Also we do not need to take points from things that happen in others live's. (Unless, it is a personal testimony) We are to look to Jesus, he is our teacher and he sent the Holy Spirit as our teacher and comforter. Yes, we do need to encourage one another, but we don't do this by telling intimate details of other people's lives. One way this is done is by showing love to one another, like Jesus instructed us to do.

I am not trying to get on a soap box and preach, but whether our intentions are to gossip or not, I don't know, but we need to stay clear of topics like this. They are not right. Its really none of our business about this man's personal intimate struggles, unless he brings it to us himself. I do agree that he and his family should be prayed for, as well as other people in the ministry, but we should be doing this anyway, whether we hear a story about them or not.

How would we feel if this were us, whether its true or not. And people were discussing our intimate details. I am sure that none of us would be happy to go online and see stories about us plastered everywhere. This is what Jesus says:

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I don't think we show love to the person who is talked about when we spread things about their lives.

 

[pebbles]

LovetheLord, I respect your views but wholeheartedly disagree with you on all counts.

You are most certainly entitled to feel as you do, and I make no attempt to change your views. I do not think that you are trying to be self righteous.

The bottom line is this: This forum was created for Christian fellowship, and as you know, we fellowhip in different ways. If there is an event or situation that takes place in the news having to do with different leaders of the church, members are welcomed to discuss it here in a respectful manner, which is what was done. This isn't gossip, this is news. It already hit the mainstream media, it was in the LA Times, so we can discuss it. You are not obligated to participate in the discussions if they disturb you.

If I came into this thread and found members laughing and making jokes about what happened to someone in a leadership position, I'd be disturbed and in agreement with you. I don't see anybody doing that. That's not what's taken place here. Again, you do not have to participate in any discussion that you find disturbing or uncomfortable in any way.

Thanks. :Rose:

 

[LovetheLord]

LovetheLord, I respect your views but wholeheartedly disagree with you on all counts.

You are most certainly entitled to feel as you do, and I make no attempt to change your views. I do not think that you are trying to be self righteous.

The bottom line is this: This forum was created for Christian fellowship, and as you know, we fellowhip in different ways. If there is an event or situation that takes place in the news having to do with different leaders of the church, members are welcomed to discuss it here in a respectful manner, which is what was done. This isn't gossip, this is news. It already hit the mainstream media, it was in the LA Times, so we can discuss it. You are not obligated to participate in the discussions if they disturb you.

If I came into this thread and found members laughing and making jokes about what happened to someone in a leadership position, I'd be disturbed and in agreement with you. I don't see anybody doing that. That's not what's taken place here. Again, you do not have to participate in any discussion that you find disturbing or uncomfortable in any way.

Thanks. :Rose:

You are absolutely correct, I am not going to continue with this matter back and forth. I don't see it going anywhere. I will not participate in this part of the Forum anymore, I will stick to the Hair Care Forum Tips & Recipes which is why I came to this site in the first place. I have just found it hard to find people who are trying as hard as you to adhere to everything the Lord commanded.

Of course, I am in no way upset, I just pray the best for everyone in their our personal walk with God.

 

[LovetheLord]

LovetheLord, I respect your views but wholeheartedly disagree with you on all counts.

You are most certainly entitled to feel as you do, and I make no attempt to change your views. I do not think that you are trying to be self righteous.

The bottom line is this: This forum was created for Christian fellowship, and as you know, we fellowhip in different ways. If there is an event or situation that takes place in the news having to do with different leaders of the church, members are welcomed to discuss it here in a respectful manner, which is what was done. This isn't gossip, this is news. It already hit the mainstream media, it was in the LA Times, so we can discuss it. You are not obligated to participate in the discussions if they disturb you.

If I came into this thread and found members laughing and making jokes about what happened to someone in a leadership position, I'd be disturbed and in agreement with you. I don't see anybody doing that. That's not what's taken place here. Again, you do not have to participate in any discussion that you find disturbing or uncomfortable in any way.

Thanks. :Rose:

Of course you are absolutely right, I do not have to particpate with things that I don't agree with. I was only trying to shed some light, because If I see my sister or brother in the Lord, doing something wrong, then I am going to try to lead them by the word of God. Anyway, I don't see the point in going back and forth in this matter, I think I am just going to stick with the Hair Care Discussion Forum & Tips which is why I came to this site in the first place. I just thought it was an added bonus to see a Christian Forum included on the site, but unfortunately its like most Chirsitan Forums I have found. I am in no way upset about your views or this board, just a little saddened.

 

[LovetheLord]

Sorry Ladies,

Last time I promise. I posted twice by mistake, my apologies.

 

[pebbles]

Of course you are absolutely right, I do not have to particpate with things that I don't agree with. I was only trying to shed some light, because If I see my sister or brother in the Lord, doing something wrong, then I am going to try to lead them by the word of God. Anyway, I don't see the point in going back and forth in this matter, I think I am just going to stick with the Hair Care Discussion Forum & Tips which is why I came to this site in the first place. I just thought it was an added bonus to see a Christian Forum included on the site, but unfortunately its like most Chirsitan Forums I have found. I am in no way upset about your views or this board, just a little saddened.

I hope I didn't put you off from this forum. That is not my intention. I think you have some knowledge to impart here and I wish you would stay with us. More Christian sisters is what I pray for.

With that said, there is clearly a difference of opinion on what was stated here in this thread, and I'm sorry that I'm unable to make you understand where I'm coming from. I think that if the OP had come here and said something like, "Oooh, guess what? I heard x-y-z about my pastor and it's just disgusting the things done behind closed doors! LOL!! Etc."

Then I'd have to say, ok, that's not what we're called to do. That is clearly gossip, and does not give glory to God.

But a story that is in a major newspaper is different, in my mind. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying I don't see it as gossip. So often when things of this nature come out, talking about it can get us past it and help us to understand what went wrong. Further still, it's an excellent way to help someone else who may be struggling. Sometimes when you're in trouble it's easy to feel that you're the only one going through that problem.

At any rate, I do hope you decide to stay and post here. We need more Godly women on this forum to impart knowledge and pray with us! Whatever your decision, be blessed!

 

[Shimmie]

Sorry Ladies,

Last time I promise. I posted twice by mistake, my apologies.

No apology needed. Please stay. It's hard to relay our hearts in forum text. I know Pebbles personally and while I may not know you personally, the two of you are of the same loving heart and on the same page.

I understand what both of you were trying to convey. Just stay. And I apologize for anything that I've ever posted that may and actually was of an offense to you or anyone else. None of us will ever agree either in or out of the Church. Yet, we in the Church know how to work it out and we do.

Just stay. Both you and Pebbles can 'work' on me, because a piece of work I am indeed.

Warm and sincerely meant...