My new theory on NO-LYE VS LYE RELAXERS

[MyAngelEyez~C~U]

I use have used Bronner Brothers Lye relaxer with no burning at all. I also tend to use a mild lye relaxer when I relaxer my own hair at home, it reduces the possibility of burning quite a bit. My hair is funny...it never gets "bone staight" anyway, so I have to flat-iron or wet wrap my hair to make it straight. I have found that I get better results with lye relaxers than with no-lye, that's what I'll stick with for now.

 

[taz007]

I have 4B, thick, coarse, and dense hair and Phyto was the BEST thing that ever happened to my hair!

My stylists used to use Mizani (don't think that it was Butter Blends), Design Essentials, Bantu, Motions, etc. I tried them all. I always got the same results:

Hair OFF of my head!

I self relax with Phyto and my hair just gets better and better. And I relax every 6-7 weeks. My hair is very strong.

 

[~Hair~Fetish~]

Hm. Maybe your hair was dry because the no-lye relaxer was left on for longer to get the hair bone straight..I think that is what happens with people who aim for bone straight hair and use no-lye. They do not favor no-lye because they have to leave it on for longer, resulting in more damaged hair. Whereas with lye relaxers, they straighten to a greater extent and do not need to be left on for long to get bone straight hair.

That's probably true as well. Whatever the case, I'm sticking with the lye relaxers.

 

[LaidBak]

Thanks for answering. It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I find it very hard to believe. I'm just thinking about the number of relaxed women who flat iron after a fresh relaxer and take a picture to show their length. Why would they need to flat iron if a relaxer was all it took to get hair straight. I'm also thinking about all the threads where relaxed women ask how to workout and maintain their style. If their hair was straight they wouldn't need to do anything special after a workout.

I don't know anyone who's hair is straight after a relaxer. Maybe when people say straight they mean straighter than it would have been without the relaxer. When I say straight I mean as straight as it is after I blow dry and flat iron, no waves, no crinkles, straaaaaaaaight.

PS. I'm not trying to be a pest, I just thought about this a lot and now I'm back to thinking it's a figure of speech.

I am not speaking for anyone but myself (every head is different). I have fine hair with a small wave pattern as opposed to a curl. It doesn't take much to flatten that wave into a straight line. I have, for the last 30+ years had bone-straight hair. Right out of the shower. No curl, no wave, no nothing. If a person's hair has a lot of curl they would not reach that level of straightening in the 20 min maximum that most relaxers prescribe. So that might be why all those other women you've read about have to flat iron. I didn't even own a flat iron until about 3 years ago; never needed one. Now I only use it when I am trying to stretch my relaxers.


Not sure what else I could do to show you except pull out a strand and mail it to you so you can wet it-LoL! Then you could see my texlaxed root end wave up and my bonelaxed ends stay straight. *shrugging*
Anyway, its not just a figure of speech. Maybe start a thread and ask? Then you'll get more responses.

 

[myronnie]

I've always been a no-lye relaxer & never had any problems relaxing.

I've had a "lye" relaxer twice in my life - both times at the salon, after I forgot to specify no-lye, or didn't know to. The burning was ridiculous, and shortly after after the first time was when I had my first (only) small bald patch. Lye is the devil. I am definitely a no-lye chick.

@ OP's theory....I wonder if my use of no-lye is why I still have super-thick hair? When I hear people say that relaxers make your hair thin, I'm always like

Hmm..sometimes I will be looking at someone's hair and think to myself "Wow their hair is very thick for a relaxed head!" Then to my surprise I find out that they are relaxed with no-lye. So sometimes I equate the two but it's not always the case.

 

[onejamifan]

I used to always relax with LYE and had no problems. Switched to no-lye and experienced considerable thinning. My hair also got too straight. With lye relaxers, I could do WnG and my hair would actually curl, but when I switched to no-lye my WnG had no texture whatsoever. I switched back to lye last year and my hair is thick again. The hair that has been relaxed with lye gets some curl when I do WnGs and the ends still dry stick straight. I definitely feel lye leaves my hair with more body and volume.

My 2 cents.

 

[joib]

Very interesting. I am thinking of going with a Lye relaxer next spring bet I am confused about the difference.

 

[Angelicus]

Thank you for sharing your opinions.

I know that everyone's hair is different but no-lye relaxers made my hair straight as a stick... and then the hair broke off. I know that no-lyes are marketed to people (especially children) because it's "more gentle on the scalp."

We also need to think about relaxer application and rinsing. Many people have different ways of relaxing. That's the key!

 

[Aggie]

Fine hair girl here with lots of shrinkage in my natural hair. My hair thrives with lye relaxers. No lye eats my hair up is an excellent way to describe it.

ETA: Mizani Butter blends, and I prefer leaving texture in my hair.

ITA....I really do.

 

[Denise11]

I switched to Lye recently. The difference in the texture of my hair is incredible. I came here because my hair was always very dry while using no lye. My hair is so soft, now that im using lye, it's ridiculous!

 

[myronnie]

I think there's way too many variables here..to the poster before me:
What hair regime were you following when you were relaxed with No-Lye? I was relaxed with Lye and practicing horrible hair care and my hair was soooo hard and breaking all the time!
So yeah way too many variables:
1. Hair Regime
2. How long you leave on the relaxer
3. What strength you relax with (mild, reg, extra)
4. Your interpretation of hair overall and what you wanted to achieve by getting a relaxer.

 

[lunabelle]

I had been using Optimum no-lye for years with no problems but afterreading I decided to try a lye relaxer. Worst mistake ever! I used Mizani butter blends and it completely changed the texture of my hair... my hair was frizzy and dull for months. I went back to Optimum no lye and Im back to my old silky self.

 

[jerseygurl]

Everybody's hair is different so we have to account for that also. I used to use no-lye and my hair was dry and frizzy and was breaking off. This was pre-LHCF so I wasn't really practicing good hair care. When I switched to lye, my hair was better, less breakage and frizziness, this was also pre-LHCF. I just decided to stick with lye cos I loved the way it made my hair feel. Neither lye nor no-lye relaxers can get my hair straight and I like it that way.

 

[imaccami]

I am not speaking for anyone but myself (every head is different). I have fine hair with a small wave pattern as opposed to a curl. It doesn't take much to flatten that wave into a straight line. I have, for the last 30+ years had bone-straight hair. Right out of the shower. No curl, no wave, no nothing. If a person's hair has a lot of curl they would not reach that level of straightening in the 20 min maximum that most relaxers prescribe. So that might be why all those other women you've read about have to flat iron. I didn't even own a flat iron until about 3 years ago; never needed one. Now I only use it when I am trying to stretch my relaxers.


Not sure what else I could do to show you except pull out a strand and mail it to you so you can wet it-LoL! Then you could see my texlaxed root end wave up and my bonelaxed ends stay straight. *shrugging*
Anyway, its not just a figure of speech. Maybe start a thread and ask? Then you'll get more responses.

Wow! That's great for you. I think your hair is one of a kind, or at least in a very cool minority. I didn't mean to sound like I doubted what you were saying, I know it's true for you, but I don't know how true it is for the majority.

Anywhoo...back on topic. Another reason I like lye better is that no-lye turned my hair a reddish color. I had no idea why my hair color was changing, but I just accepted it. Once I switched to lye, my dark brown hair was back.

 

[jendazzler]

It seems like a lot of people started off with one type of relaxer and then tried something with bad results. I have always used no-lye and was thinking about trying lye. I believe my hair might deny it just because it is accustomed to no-lye. Do you think changing the type of relaxer in a sense shocked the hair because it was used to one type of relaxer for so many years? I guess I am wondeing if whether lye works better or no-lye works better is just a result of what your hair is accustomed to. Is changing relaxers for only 1-2 months enough time for your hair to adjust and really decide if it is right for you?

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

So I've been thinking and reading a lot about no-lye vs lye when it comes to relaxers. I've been using ORS No-Lye for about 2 years now, and I see a marked difference in my ends (only an inch) which have been relaxed with Lye relaxers (I think they stylist used Design Essentials).

I think No-lye relaxers keep some of the natural texture in the hair and Lye relaxers strip all the texture from the hair leaving it "silkier" but nonetheless thinner than with No-lye relaxers. The silkier feel may be interpreted as healthier, but I think otherwise.

My relaxed hair with no-lye has curl, thickness, and shine. It is not straight, silky, or smooth like many want to achieve when relaxing, but i think it is healthier than my bone straight ends that are thin and lifeless at times.

SO. In conclusion, I DO NOT think that no-lye relaxers damage your hair more than Lye relaxers. But I believe some people think this because of the maintainance of curl pattern and texture after a Lye relaxer. I believe if you have fine, damaged hair, no-lye is the way to go, because it results in thicker hair and is more gentle than NaOH Lye relaxers.

Also, the pH of calcium hydroxide is 12.4 (No-lye) whereas the pH of sodium hydroxide is 13 (Lye). So lye is a harsher chemical.

I know I no longer believe the lye hype about it being better for the hair. It didn't leave my hair feeling silkier at all...hard! I hated it but I stuck with it because of Cathy Howse..."do not mix relaxers." Well, I learned how to do a corrective with a no-lye on a previous lye application from a cosmetology book and I won't be looking back towards lye relaxers anymore. They left my scalp feeling funny, even with base.

 

[Solitude]

Thanks for answering. It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I find it very hard to believe. I'm just thinking about the number of relaxed women who flat iron after a fresh relaxer and take a picture to show their length. Why would they need to flat iron if a relaxer was all it took to get hair straight. I'm also thinking about all the threads where relaxed women ask how to workout and maintain their style. If their hair was straight they wouldn't need to do anything special after a workout.

I don't know anyone who's hair is straight after a relaxer. Maybe when people say straight they mean straighter than it would have been without the relaxer. When I say straight I mean as straight as it is after I blow dry and flat iron, no waves, no crinkles, straaaaaaaaight.

PS. I'm not trying to be a pest, I just thought about this a lot and now I'm back to thinking it's a figure of speech.

Women still flat iron because our hair still has texture & volume. Even bone-straight, type 3 & 4 relaxed hair is not as straight as type 1 hair. Flat-ironing relaxed hair helps to show 100% of your length. Also, unless your hair is long, it's going to look un-styled/ un-combed if you simply let it airdry.

This is the same reason why people of all colors/ hair textures have hair that appears to be longer when wet. If your hair has any type of elasticity, it will be fuller/ have more texture and won't appear as long when dry.

 

[imaccami]

Women still flat iron because our hair still has texture & volume. Even bone-straight, type 3 & 4 relaxed hair is not as straight as type 1 hair. Flat-ironing relaxed hair helps to show 100% of your length. Also, unless your hair is long, it's going to look un-styled/ un-combed if you simply let it airdry.

This is the same reason why people of all colors/ hair textures have hair that appears to be longer when wet. If your hair has any type of elasticity, it will be fuller/ have more texture and won't appear as long when dry.

That was my point. As far as I'm concerned that isn't bone straight. Puffy but straight isn't bone straight in my mind, neither is slightly waved and mostly straight. When I think of bone straight I think of something like my left siggy pic. That's why I asked the original question to find out what people considered to be bone straight.

 

[Solitude]

That was my point. As far as I'm concerned that isn't bone straight. Puffy but straight isn't bone straight in my mind, neither is slightly waved and mostly straight. When I think of bone straight I think of something like my left siggy pic. That's why I asked the original question to find out what people considered to be bone straight.

Huh? Bone straight is no wave or curl left, but bone-straight relaxed hair isn't going to equal flat-ironed hair. It looks like your hair in that pic is flat-ironed. But, if I get a fresh relaxer and simply wrap my hair and let it dry like that, when I take it down it will look like that picture - just about as straight as flat-ironing. The tension from the wrap helps the hair dry stretched out.

I relax bone straight, and I still flat-iron, but that doesn't mean that my freshly-relaxed hair is "puffy" without flat-ironing. Afro-textured hair, even bone-straight, will still have some texture. Texture doesn't equal puffiness. If you relax all the texture out of your hair, it will be overprocessed, lose all elasticity, and therefore become damaged.

MY hair is straight as it can be without being damaged after a relaxer. Looking at your original post - I have never understood why relaxed women have a hard time maintaining their hair after exercising. I only have that problem when stretching. Because I relax bone straight, I simply wrap my hair when exercising and make sure it is fully dry before taking the wrap down.

ETA: I don't know, if you've never had your own hair relaxed bone straight, then I can't really explain it any better.

 

[imaccami]

You say texture, I say puffy. We're basically talking about the same thing. That's not bone straight as far as I'm concerned.

Where does the texture come from if it isn't from the curl pattern? Where does the texture go after the hair has been flat ironed? The answer is that the flat ironing straightens the hair even further, therefore the hair wasn't completely straight before the flat ironing. So, texture is a curl pattern, a very slight curl pattern, but a curl pattern nonetheless.

Anyway, we look at it differently. You say that bone straight is "just about as straight" as hair that has been flat ironed, I say that it is as straight as flat ironed hair. Straight and bone straight have two different meanings and what you're describing is what I consider to be straight. I think we have to agree to disagree because we just have different opinions on this issue.

 

[Solitude]

You say texture, I say puffy. We're basically talking about the same thing. That's not bone straight as far as I'm concerned.

Where does the texture come from if it isn't from the curl pattern? Where does the texture go after the hair has been flat ironed? The answer is that the flat ironing straightens the hair even further, therefore the hair wasn't completely straight before the flat ironing. So, texture is a curl pattern, a very slight curl pattern, but a curl pattern nonetheless.

Anyway, we look at it differently. You say that bone straight is "just about as straight" as hair that has been flat ironed, I say that it is as straight as flat ironed hair. Straight and bone straight have two different meanings and what you're describing is what I consider to be straight. I think we have to agree to disagree because we just have different opinions on this issue.

Yes, we are going to have to agree to disagree . There is absolutely no curl pattern left in my hair after I relax it. However, because I have type-4 hair and not type 1 hair, it will never look or feel like the hair of an Asian person, but it can get extremely silky.

To answer your question about flat-ironing; texture does not go away - the hair is stretched out using either heat or tension. That's not a curl pattern - that's elasticity, as I said before.

As you said, maybe we are trying to say the same thing, only differently.

ETA: Actually, after re-reading your post and thinking about what you said about texture v. puffiness, I think we really ARE saying basically the same thing about that part.

 

[Solitude]

Hair Elasticity: http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_32.htm

This site explains the physical properties of hair much more succinctly than I can. Even the straightest hair in the world can be stretched further if that hair is healthy.