Let's TRY to get this "straight".....hairtypes...

ccd

ccd

New Member
Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes...

come in all different variations, we can see this from this board alone...but there has to be some common, unmistakable qualities in hair that we can come to agree with ( hopefully, idealistically....maybe?)

This is not to start anything but to simply clarify...(ever since I joined the board I noticed perceptions/perspective on hairtype can be (is) subjective)

I'm asking to see what you consider to be the qualities /or differences to be between MAINLY 3 and 4 'cause I believe that's where most of the confusion lies.


For me:
Basically we know both hair types have curls, then there's variation of curls....coils.....spiral.....kinks whatever but for me the major difference between 3s and 4s is

1. the texture of the individual strands, if it straighter or coarse.... 3s have a smoother strand of hair, the cuticle lie down..
2. to me a 3 can wet their hair and it will lie straight for a while then as it dries....wIth NO Product...it begins to form curls, spirals and maybe coils (I'm not sure 3s have coils...or if spirals can apply here) maybe not perfect curls and spirals but it does not have to be manipulated or styled.

3. Now with 4s, I believe the strand can be a bit "rougher" or jagged ( because the cuticle is not lying straight down) so the issue and degrees of coarseness comes in) Please don't take this the wrong way...this is how I describe MY hair......I'm using myself as a reference here......

4. When 4s are wet the hair doesn't lie flat...the hair absorbs the water maybe... not sure how to describe this, but since I'm relaxed I'm judging from when I have more newgrowth, when I wash my hair...the areas of growth don't lie flat, they kinda puff out I guess. ( Gloria Ruben..I think her name is...ER women, comes to mind)

5. Also, I believe 4s require more "work" ( meaning products and styling) to get the curls or coils
( IMHO) I'm not sure on this...I only know what my hair does and I need a leavein, curl spray or gel to get curls/waves

But naturals correct me if I'm wrong.....if freshly washed hair is airdried with no products...how does it come out?


I know there is a 3C in the mix.. but I'd like to know what you think..........how valid is this? If there is a 3C why not create a 4C then.

...I just want to know if there are any qualities you can thing of that unmistakable define a 3 and a 4?

We all agree that this system need expansion but take it for what it is, a guideline. I find that the clearer we are on our own situation the better we can give advice on what to do and what not to do.....also to know what to expect from your hair.

This is my opinion and not meant to upset/offend anyone. Thanks IA.
smile.gif

Sorry if its too long
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

Have you read the descriptions of hair types from naturallycurly.com? I believe they are better descriptors than the lhcf site. They take into consideration the coarseness/fineness of hair.

NaturallyCurly.com Hair Types
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

Thanks for starting this thread
smile.gif


I'm 4b. My natural hair (newgrowth) has no wave pattern to it even when it's wet. It poofs out when dry and looks frizzy without any products. With products, it still does not have a wave pattern. My newgrowth is very tightly coiled. My hair texture is fine textured too.

If you can use products and get a wave pattern in your natural hair, I would guess that you were a 3C. No amount of products makes my natural hair wavy. That's just my opinion.
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

well i think the major distinction with 3 is the str8ness when wet...my hair did that for months after i b/c(i havent cut my hair since then) and it doesnt do it any more...although i do have str8 strands dangling around up in here ( i do not str8ten my hair at all)

3c is an in between...i guess thats why it is not on every scale...my 4a hair does spring up on its on without any products by airdrying....although most of my hair is coarse...

and im not tryna be catty..but i think the main thing is...that not everyone has the same parents or were born on the same day..so there can be major differences in hair thats the same type.....when i go to look at ppl's pix for hair ideas or i read their threads for tips....i have never ran across one that had typed their hair wrong(IMO)...it may be my same hair type but not everything that works for them will work for me...i think that should be kept in mind

i think my hair doesnt lay flat when wet cuz i got about 10 billion strands on my head lol...
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes...

I think you're right on the 3. However, I disagree with hundreds of pple (including Ouidad) on the fact that the hair cuticle on type 4 (or any curly hair) does not lie flat. The argument I've heard on this is that it's because of the curves that a cuticle cannot lie flat.
look.gif
But I beg to disagree because the ratio in size of the cuticle to the curves in coily hair is so small that from a cuticle's point of view, the area it covers appears flat. To explain this, think of the earth. It's got a curved surface, yet it's possible to lay a ruler on the ground and have it lying flat. Coz that very small distance appears flat to that very small ruler.

Here's a page on the website by Pantene showing magnified photo of how natural afro hair knots. Since this is very characteristic of type 4 hair, I will assume we're looking at type 4 hair:
http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_76.htm

Notice that except for the part where tension exists due to knotting, the cuticle is intact...even over the point of the knot...and we know those knots are a lot smaller than the coils of type 4 hair. So if the cuticle does lie flat even on hair folded so tightly, I bet you my bottom dollar, healthy type 4 hair cuticles lie flat just as well as type 3 hair. The reason the hair doesn't shine like type 3 hair is because it is curlier. The curlier hair is, the less it reflects light. Pull type 4 hair straight and it appears shiny too.

Here's another look at type 4 hair magnified from that Pantene site. There seems to be a different explanation on why type 4 hair needs extra TLC compared to other types. The groove? Maybe that answers all the other questions that make pple suspect the cuticle:
[ QUOTE ]
hair_twh_74_01.jpg
This is African hair (as indicated by the groove along its length): this type of hair, more than any other, needs the protection of conditioning


[/ QUOTE ]

About the reaction of hair to water, I don't know. I know there are garments that absorb water and stretch. In other words, you dip them in water and lift and they appear longer than usual. When they dry, they shrink back to their normal size...the way type 3 hair behaves. So as far as type 4 hair puffing out due to absorbing water, that may be...but type 3 straightens due absorbing water too, IMHO. So the response in either type is probably different because their make-up is different. Different compounds react differently with water. Just my $0.02.

Type 4 hair isn't always coarser than any other type. It can feel softer than type 3 hair...if well moisturized. It's only coarse when void of sufficient moisture. And the reason for this may be due to its tight curls as you say, which make it necessary to pay special attention when moisturizing that moisture gets well inside bends.

I think the difficulty with type 4 hair comes in learning how to deal with the curls intertwining. That makes combing hair difficult...as does the tightening of the hair springs when moisture gets into the hair making the coils hug even tighter.

I think what we can do best is ID the hair by how it responds. We might not know the full answers for the whys behind the behavior, but we can honestly attest to the fact that it just does.

Oh and as far as the cuticle being opened... since Pantene seem to have a lot of info backed by scientific photos and logic, I wrote to ask them about open cuticles supposedly being characteristic of afro curly hair. Here's what they wrote back:

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="brown">Is it true that afro hair cuticles are always open? In other words, is it true that our hair is susceptible to damage and dryness because the cuticle of the strands never close? I understand Ouidad, supposedly the guru on curly hair, believes that of all curly hair, but particularly Afro hair. And that's what I'd like to know.

I use an apple cider vinegar rinse because I believe it helps close the cuticles of hair strands but I'm appalled to hear that Afro hair cuticles never close. Is that true?
</font>

<font color="blue"> I'm sorry it's taken so long to get back in touch with you on this.

I received an answer to your question and I'm happy to share the information with you. It is true that African American hair is susceptible to damage - - but it's not because the cuticle remains open. The reason African American hair has more damage is due to the genetic make up of the hair. Each bend or kink in the hair shaft is a weak spot for damage to occur.

I hope this information, even though late, is helpful. Thanks for your patience.

Kelly
Pantene Team
</font>

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

Ok so what about if you have a z pattern like 4b hair, but it is a relatively large z and the hair in between each "bend" is smooth?
I assumed my hair was 4b because I immediately latched onto the z pattern description but does it matter how big the "z"s are the way it seems to make a difference in 3 hair how big the spirals are?
I am content just calling myself a 4b because I truly believe that even if I am not a 4b I am not THAT different to make a difference in terms of treatment or products, cause all hair will respond positively to good products and care. But I would like to know if any others have the same confusion or if this sounds familiar.
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

I think you should check out the LOIS system. Personally, I think hair types are pointless because there are so many variations of nappy hair that it is silly to give it 2 or three categories. I think it is more important to find out what your hair likes rather than try and figure out what category you fit in. However I know the difference that distinguishes hair types is only the shape of the curl whether it a z, a big curl or little curl. 4a can be smooth, shiny and highly curly and 3c is not always shiny but can be very puffy and more coily than curly. There are many variation of nappy hair. I highly recommend NP.com if you are interested in the beauty of natural hair and its different variation. There are many albums there for you viewing peasure.

Here is a copy of the LOIS system

LOIS Chart




Shine - hair that reflects light along its surface.

Sheen - hair that sparkles as light bounces off it.

Patterns

L = Bend

O = Curl

I = Straight

S = Wave


Strands can be Thick, Medium or Thin/Fine

One half of a piece of inexpensive sewing thread (such as the kind that is contained in those palm sized personal sewing kits) split in two is about the thickness of a medium strand size of human hair. If you hair is larger than this, then your strand size is thick. If you hair is smaller than the split thread, then your hair strand is thin, or fine. If you want to compare your hair strand to a split piece of thread, it can be done by moving the thread back and forth between your thumb and forefinger holding the free end taunt.


Textures*

Thready - low sheen, high shine, low frizz

Wiry - sparkly sheen, low shine, low frizz

Cottony - low sheen, low shine, high frizz

Spongy - high sheen, low shine, high frizz

Silky - low sheen, high shine, low frizz








Thready texture of hair usually has a low sheen, with high shine if the hair is held taunt (as in a braid), with low frizz. Wets easily but water dries out quickly.

Wiry hair textures have sparkle sheen, with low shine and low frizz. Water beads up or bounces off the hair strands. Hair never seems to get fully wet.

Cottony hair texture will have a low sheen, a high shine if the hair is held taunt and has high frizz. Absorbs water quickly but does not get thoroughly wet very fast.

Spongy hair has a high sheen with low shine with a compacted looking frizz. Absorbs water before it gets thoroughly wet.

Silky hair has low sheen, a very high shine, with a lot or low frizz. Easily wets in water.

How to determine which daughter (or son) of LOIS you are:




Remove a single strand of the most common type of hair on your head. Aim for 70%,

so if you have different textures, use the most common texture on your head.

The hair should be freshly washed without products applied to it and rinsed in cold water.

Or, gently rinse a single hair with a little dish detergent and rinse in cold water.

Lay the hair on an absorbent paper towel to dry.

When the hair is completely dry, look at the pattern without touching it.



If the hair has all bends, right angles and folds with little to no curve then you are daughter L.

If the strand is rolled up into the shape of one or several zeros like a spiral, then you are daughter O.

If the hair lies mostly flat with no distinctive curve or bend you are daughter I.

If the strand looks like a wavy line with hills and valleys then you are daughter S.




It will be common to have a combination of the LOIS letters, (with more dominant) which can help you determine which daughter of LOIS you are. If you cannot see one letter over the others, then combine the letters. Example: LO or IL or OS.




With all this in mind, we'll combine André's system with LOIS for a general category, then further divide us into more detail. It is important to understand that every head of hair is different and it's impossible to include everyone's exact hair. A close-as mentality is best when viewing other women's hair.

4a-OS dense hair tends to feel spongy.

4a-OS fine hair tends to feel cottony.

4a-OS wide strand diameter tends to feel wiry.




OS hair coils into springs and s-curls when wet, with the occasional spiral curl.

These springs can range in diameter from chalk to pen spring size.

The smaller diameter the coils, the more shrinkage is expected.


These springs and coils may disappear when hair is dry or combed/picked.

Hair may lose it's sheen when combed and/or dried, needing a shine product to revitalise it.




This hairtype can be sheeny or shiny when glossing products are used.

It doesn't straighten easily if the strands are coarse.

When it grows long it sits more outward than downward.


4a hairtype may hold a shake &amp; go style and coil definition with the right products.

It holds wet twists and comb coils tightly and very well for long periods.

Stays moisturized with the right products


This hairtype may not hold a press well because it reacts quickly to moisture.

4b-LI dense hair tends to feel coarse if strands are wide.

4b-LI fine diameter hair tends to feel cottony and slightly rough.

4b-LI wide strand diameter tends to feel wiry and coarse.




4b-LI hair is the most fragile because of zig zag angles of the hair strands

The smaller the zig zags, the more shrinkage is expected.

4b-LI normally doesn't shrink as much as a similar pattern size 4a.


4b-LI does not reflect light easily so it doesn't have a natural shine.

It tends to straighten easily with heat but may flatten out before puffing out in humidity.

It will shrink upwards and inwards when drenched.

4b-LI tends to grow outward and sit downward once it has length.


4b-LI may be a combination of very small, tight coils and zig zags.

4b-LI does not have coil definition so may look fuzzy at the ends.

It holds wet twists &amp; coils but may need to be re-done more often than 4a to hold.

This hairtype tends towards dryness and needs extra moisturizing to maintain softness.


Boar or natural bristle brushes are good for this hairtype to achieve a sleek look and distribute natural oils while still being gentle on the hair.


Because of the zig zags and tight coils, this hairtype is perfect for locking quickly.
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

Well I consider my hair 4A...Like it was said above, type 3 hair can get almost straight when wet. My hair does not get anywhere near straight when wet. But the curls do get looser. I would say that when wet, my hair looks like a 3C.

But I agree with the person who said that it is impossible to put all afro-type hair in 2 little categories.

I'm going to look at the LOIS system to see if I can type my hair that way.

-Ebony
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

My hair is straight up type 4a, but I have two types of 4a on my head. The back of my head is a very loose 4a, almost a 3c. When wet, my entire head looks like 3c texture, but the looser 4a in the back has shine, which the front does not. It is also less dense. So, I think that maybe the difference between type 3s and 4s have to do with the look of the hair, not necessarily how many curls it has. I say this because even the much looser hair that I have in the back of my head shrinks up considerably to naps when dry, though it shines and looks like type 3 hair when wet. Type 3 hair probably shrinks less also and looks silkier than type 4 hair. It also does not stiffen up like type 4 hair. By that I mean, if I put my hair in a puff in the morning and I take off my headband at night, my hair doesn't fall, it stays in the same puff after it dries, with or without a band to hold it back.

I also disagree that type 4 hair is coarse since it comes in every strand texture, as with other hair types. My hair also lies down, almost straight, when I'm in the shower. However, when dry, it looks like straight up type 4a hair.
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

There are so many variations in hair types, even among 3:s, 4:s etc. For example, my hair is a 3 something and my best friend's hair is also a 3 something.

Her hair has a blinding shine, my hair always has a duller look.
Her hair is more springy than mine, my hair is not as flexible.
When I put my hair in a bun it straightens a bit, when she does it, it stays curly.
When I straighten her hair it springs right back to curls, when I straighten mine it lasts for a week. Same method (flat ironing).
When she goes to bed for a nap, her hair is a tangly mess in the back, if I go to bed with loose hair my hair hardly changes.
Her hair is very difficult to comb because of the tangling, my hair is very easy to comb.
She has a million tiny strands, I have less amount of hair but thicker individual strands.
Her hair feels ultra soft and silky, my hair feels rougher and coarser.
Her hair is light weight because of the small diameter strands, my hair is heavier because of the thick strands I have.
Her hair has smaller curls and even spirals, my hair has bigger waves and curls.

But when people see us together, they say we have the same kind of hair because we have the same length, almost the same curl size, same color, both our hairs straighten when wet, etc.
We are both clearly 3:s, but very different.

About the difference between 3:s and 4:s: I think the main difference is curl size and shape. From nat.curly.com:
"3C has really really tight curls, like pencil or straw circumference. 3B is like sidewalk chalk or salt shaker circumference, and 4A is like coffee stirrer circumference."
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

See, I always thought I was 4a. According to the LOIS system (pretty cool by the way) I'm a 4a-OS, mostly spongy, a little cottony in areas. That explains why my hair never is shiny on its own, but it does look sort of "sparkly" when it's in good condition
cool.gif
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

The entire thing is confusing to me. I just concentrate on keeping my hair healthy.
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

thanks ladies...I have looked at both naturaly curly and the Lois system..... I think naturally curly is easier to understand but the LOIS system does offer more depth I guess you could say....

I appreciate you responses
smile.gif
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

[ QUOTE ]
ichephren said:
I also disagree that type 4 hair is coarse since it comes in every strand texture, as with other hair types. My hair also lies down, almost straight, when I'm in the shower. However, when dry, it looks like straight up type 4a hair.

[/ QUOTE ]

My hair is thick in terms of me having a lot of strands but my hair isn't coarse.

-Ebony
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

[ QUOTE ]
keylargo said:
Thanks for starting this thread
smile.gif


I'm 4b. My natural hair (newgrowth) has no wave pattern to it even when it's wet. It poofs out when dry and looks frizzy without any products. With products, it still does not have a wave pattern. My newgrowth is very tightly coiled. My hair texture is fine textured too.

If you can use products and get a wave pattern in your natural hair, I would guess that you were a 3C. No amount of products makes my natural hair wavy. That's just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Key!!! thanks for sharing and your enthusiasm.
smile.gif
My new growth curls up with or with out product but the length gets wavy/some spiral in some areas.

Ok I didn't realize some textures may not curl up with product......
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

I don't think anybody can make a blanket statement about afro textured hair because even within the so called "hairtypes" there would be many "subcategories from what my eyes have seen. I have 4a hair which is corkscrew spirally, fine and does straighten in the shower when it is wet. However, it has amazing spring capacity and the curls bounce right back once I am done rinsing. Not to mention that I have a ton of shrinkage and my hair shines. Probably not as glossy as someone that has a looser curl pattern but is shines never the less.
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

I'm not looking for blanket statements. I really think there are general similarities/ or qualities that exists within a hairtypes...but I guess that's not possible to see or to come to an general understanding in this forum.

I started the post to see what perceptions others had on the 2 hair types....some people have responded to me by saying its not possible to catagorize (fine), and that hair types are not important but .....from reading present and past threads ......I Completely disagree with those statements, especially how its not important...... meanwhile it comes up every now and then.


Anyway, thanks for the responses...my questions have been answered. Peace
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

[ QUOTE ]
brittanynic16 said:
Guess not

[/ QUOTE ]

guess not what?
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

[ QUOTE ]
msportugal said:
i don't understand sheen vs shine

[/ QUOTE ]

Hairlove and Potterville both have shiny natural hair. The light reflects off of their hair. Sheen doesn't have that almost blinding light reflection. It's far more subtle.
 
Re: Let\'s TRY to get this \"straight\".....hairtypes

[ QUOTE ]
keylargo said:
Thanks for starting this thread
smile.gif


I'm 4b. My natural hair (newgrowth) has no wave pattern to it even when it's wet. It poofs out when dry and looks frizzy without any products. With products, it still does not have a wave pattern. My newgrowth is very tightly coiled. My hair texture is fine textured too.

If you can use products and get a wave pattern in your natural hair, I would guess that you were a 3C. No amount of products makes my natural hair wavy. That's just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what my hair is like too!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

LadyRaider
Curl Type Question are there comparison that can make it easier?
Replies
3
Views
1K
Nonie
Nonie
swirl
question for all 3s
Replies
20
Views
2K
swirl
swirl
ajoyfuljoy
My Theory: Looser Textures Are More Likely to Get Heat Damaged
2
Replies
44
Views
6K
Supergirl
Supergirl
K
Is it possible...
Replies
12
Views
1K
adrienne0914
adrienne0914
Country gal
I hate this one section of my hair
Replies
3
Views
789
UmSumayyah
UmSumayyah
Back
Top