It's Funny What They Don't Know

[LittleLuxe]

This thought occurred to me a few minutes ago, though I'm a newbie I'm trying to be very dedicated to the health of my hair (as it's not in it's best shape) and educate myself on the best products as well as practices.

Though I'm 2 weeks post relaxer I was reading an article on the pro's and con's of lye relaxers vs. no-lye to decide which would be best for me. As I read the article I came across this little ditty: " No lye relaxers, particularly guanidine hydroxide no lyes, will include an activator step---or a separate component to be mixed into the relaxer creme." cue me blinking in confusion.

You see when I was picking up the relaxer Mizani Butter Blends Sensitive Scalp Formula the owner of the BSS store distinctly said "Ah that's a Lye Formula" to which I immediately shoved it back on the shelf (since my mom was doing my relaxers I didn't want to take any chances till I'd gotten all my facts together about lye relaxers and the prep. needed) and bought another brand. Turns out...it's a no-lye. Now this man was walking the aisles with me, he saw the label quite clearly, he saw that the tub came with an activator bottle, shouldn't he have KNOWN what was a lye and no-lye formula???

Lately I've been feeling that way ironically from the PROFESSIONALS in the hair industry. Mis-information, fibs, exxageration and just a genuine lack of knowledge.

Some of my favorite broken records are: Running relaxer all through the hair strands till the ends (the thought of it makes me shudder), black women can't leave their hair to dry unless it's wrapped up or in rollers, black women can't let their hair air-dry, and one of my favorites white hair products don't work on black hair.

LORD these are people getting paid to KNOW about hair! So let's share ladies. What are some of the most WTF-BS-side-eye-inducing and downright 'are you stupid?' statements you've heard from people you're supposed to trust about hair?

 

[belldandy]

ITA with this whole post! This is why i didnt have long hair in high school! >;(


-leaving the relaxer on for too long...up to 1/2 hr. thats just too much for me
-that i need a "super" strength relaxer
-i should not be wetting my hair
-my hair will fall out if i use herbal essences products instead of black products
-i need heavy grease for my hair; or my hair will break

 

[MsMwana]

Why not try to educate and empower people instead of laughing at them?

 

[belldandy]

^^Every time i ever tried to educate a "hair profession" i was either laughed at, or was the recipient of major attitude but now that my hair is healthy, more ppl ARE starting to listen...but not ppl who consider themselves hair professionals unfortunately

 

[Nali1987]

Relax from root almost to the %$#@ tip.

 

[LittleLuxe]

Belldandy - ain't that the truth, trying to stay cute in high chool + 0 healthy hair tips from supposed professionals = very damaged hair

Mswana - it's funny you say that because this thread was not directed to people I wouldn't expect or demand to know about hair. I didn't even know that much till a few weeks ago. This is about people who ARE professionals. Who ARE supposed to be very educated so they can educate others. I was really marveling at the fact that people trusted with hot tools, powerful chemicals, and selling performing professional services on individuals can be so mis-informed.

and Belldandy has it right. Unfortunately once someone has that 'professional' title they're really not interested in listening to someone who's unlicensed (or even if they are). Sometimes they cop an attitude or just don't seem interested. Still, as a BBS owner I'd expect at the very least you could tell an uninformed consumer the difference between a lye and no-lye relaxer before they slap it on their head and jack up their hair, lol.

 

[MsLizziA]

Ya know, this is exactly why i said i wanted to go to school for hair. JUST so i could stir up the industry...

I feel african american need to know that basically everything u think about hair, is incorrect. We grew up being taught the wrong things about our hair and ima be honest, it was all based on racism and ignorance

"White people do that to their hair, you can't though" "Stop trying to be white, you don't wash your hair everyday" "If black people wash their hair everyday, its gonna fall out"

wtf at all of this....


We may have different NEEDS but that's also dependent upon the person as well. I find by talking to a lot of women of african american descent, that their hair might need more moisture but that's about it.

If a white woman puts heat on her hair everyday, they same thing is going to happen to her hair, that happens to ours. If she doesn't wash it and take care of it, something is gonna happen.

 

[kmn1980]

shouldn't he have KNOWN what was a lye and no-lye formula???

No. If you went to the typical BSS then you shouldn't expect that the largely Asian personnel at the BSS knows anything about the products they are selling. They are trying to make $ only and wouldn't care if they sold you dog vomit.

Reminds me of a youtube video about how most of the people in the business of Black hair products, from the chemists to the clerk behind the counter, don't know the first thing about curly/Black hair.

 

[Salsarisma]

Once I found LHCF, I quit going to my stylist every other week and became a DIYer. Well, I stopped by her shop to say hello. This was shortly after starting to taking care of my own hair...I must admit that my hair wasn't looking it's best that day. She asked me what I had been doing to my hair. I told her washing and deep conditioning with heat twice a week. She went on to tell me that it looked like I had washed my relaxer out! Lol! As if that's possible??? But she was dead serious!

Now I know that relaxers permanently alter the hair and cannot be "washed out". And my hair was dry then bc of shampooing twice a week with sulfate based shampoos!! Switching to sulfate free shampoo and substituting one wash for a cowash has made all the difference in the world!

 

[LittleLuxe]

No. If you went to the typical BSS then you shouldn't expect that the largely Asian personnel at the BSS knows anything about the products they are selling. They are trying to make $ only and wouldn't care if they sold you dog vomit.

Did I mention this bss came with it's own attached salon to which the owner was manager AND he had two of his staff working the counter?

Which means not only was he misinformed so were the two BLACK women who are APPLYING the relaxer to their client's hair? LOL.

This is exactly what I mean. If you're selling a chemical which is semi-dangerous and you don't even know whether one version of the chemical (which has a higher pH and different characteristics) is lye or no-lye what business do you even have selling it? And I had no doubt in my mind if I'd rolled into that salon and gotten my hair done and asked for a no-lye they'd have just slapped anything on my head and kept it moving.

The worst part is these women with gorgeous-LOOKING hair are just as lost. That poor black lady at the store while looking pretty could not tell me the difference between the conditioner or neutralizing shampoo. What a chelating shampoo did or even recommend a good conditioner! I was shocked!

I know I've only been in the hair-knowledge game for 2 weeks but I KNOW I know more than most professionals (not all obviously) and I KNOW they should know 100x more info than what they do.

 

[LittleLuxe]

Ms.LizziA please do! I really feel like a revolution needs to happen, while change is happening it's slow and steady and professionals aren't assisting at all. When's the last time you went to a salon and someone actually told you about the state of your hair in terms of how to improve and what's going well rather than slap a relaxer, then a flat iron and some hair spray before demanding 75 bucks. The goal should be the health of the hair and I don't think it is anymore.

Salsarisma, you know I really don't know what folks think relaxer is made of? lol. It's like they think it just vanishes at the first sight of water or sweat. I swear black women have been off on their exercise game terrified to let a bead of sweat touch freshly relaxed hair.

 

[tbaby_8]

This thought occurred to me a few minutes ago, though I'm a newbie I'm trying to be very dedicated to the health of my hair (as it's not in it's best shape) and educate myself on the best products as well as practices.

Though I'm 2 weeks post relaxer I was reading an article on the pro's and con's of lye relaxers vs. no-lye to decide which would be best for me. As I read the article I came across this little ditty: " No lye relaxers, particularly guanidine hydroxide no lyes, will include an activator step---or a separate component to be mixed into the relaxer creme." cue me blinking in confusion.

You see when I was picking up the relaxer Mizani Butter Blends Sensitive Scalp Formula the owner of the BSS store distinctly said "Ah that's a Lye Formula" to which I immediately shoved it back on the shelf (since my mom was doing my relaxers I didn't want to take any chances till I'd gotten all my facts together about lye relaxers and the prep. needed) and bought another brand. Turns out...it's a no-lye. Now this man was walking the aisles with me, he saw the label quite clearly, he saw that the tub came with an activator bottle, shouldn't he have KNOWN what was a lye and no-lye formula???

Lately I've been feeling that way ironically from the PROFESSIONALS in the hair industry. Mis-information, fibs, exxageration and just a genuine lack of knowledge.

Some of my favorite broken records are: Running relaxer all through the hair strands till the ends (the thought of it makes me shudder), black women can't leave their hair to dry unless it's wrapped up or in rollers, black women can't let their hair air-dry, and one of my favorites white hair products don't work on black hair.

LORD these are people getting paid to KNOW about hair! So let's share ladies. What are some of the most WTF-BS-side-eye-inducing and downright 'are you stupid?' statements you've heard from people you're supposed to trust about hair?

Did the gentleman tell you he was a lic comestologist or was he a salesman? If he was lic, then he needs to further educate himself. If he was a salesman, then he was doing his job, selling you a product. He isn't required to know much about it. Many of the people that work in bss are not lic and have not clue. Also, many that are lic. have no clue either, because they have not further there education either. It is about furthering your education, that is the bottom line, whether you want to know more or whether you don't want to know more. Many customers don't care, they want the end results, a fly a@# style. Many don't care about the health of there hair until it has gotten jacked up beyond repair and it has to be cut. Many times it is the stylist fault and many times it is a combination of the stylist and the clients fault.

Now, please don't take offense because all of what I am saying is not directed at you, it just came out while I was typing because I knew if I didn't get it out, I would forget my thougt.

 

[tbaby_8]

No. If you went to the typical BSS then you shouldn't expect that the largely Asian personnel at the BSS knows anything about the products they are selling. They are trying to make $ only and wouldn't care if they sold you dog vomit.

Reminds me of a youtube video about how most of the people in the business of Black hair products, from the chemists to the clerk behind the counter, don't know the first thing about curly/Black hair.

AMEN TO THAT!

 

[kmn1980]

Did I mention this bss came with it's own attached salon to which the owner was manager AND he had two of his staff working the counter?

No.

This is exactly what I mean. If you're selling a chemical which is semi-dangerous and you don't even know whether one version of the chemical (which has a higher pH and different characteristics) is lye or no-lye what business do you even have selling it?

Free enterprise.

And I had no doubt in my mind if I'd rolled into that salon and gotten my hair done and asked for a no-lye they'd have just slapped anything on my head and kept it moving.

Buyer beware.

The worst part is these women with gorgeous-LOOKING hair are just as lost. That poor black lady at the store while looking pretty could not tell me the difference between the conditioner or neutralizing shampoo. What a chelating shampoo did or even recommend a good conditioner! I was shocked!

She works at the store as a store clerk? Nope. She makes, what, $10/hr. at best so why should she memorize anything about any of these products aside from shampoo to clean and conditioner to...condition?

I know I've only been in the hair-knowledge game for 2 weeks but I KNOW I know more than most professionals (not all obviously) and I KNOW they should know 100x more info than what they do.

Perhaps an ignorant client base takes the pressure off of ignorant service providers? I mean, if I can make grip off of products that people pretty much buy out of compulsion at this point, what's my motivation to educate myself on the products? It's almost like the fast food industry.

I get what you're saying but something as personal as your physical person shouldn't be trusted to anyone's expected knowledge.

 

[LittleLuxe]

While I understand what you ladies are saying, i.e. it's a world of business out there and the owners of the store aren't required to know anything to sell you a product I feel that's exactly the attitude that's holding back black hair care and business.

If an organization such as Ulta or Sephora had a reputation of lacking such important knowledge on the products they sold NO ONE would buy anything from them. Their representatives are knowledgable on everything from appliances, to skin care products, to perfumes. Meanwhile I roll into a beauty supply store and I can't even get a recommendation for a good conditioner? Really? That's acceptable service?

Still I know we get shoddy service because we accept shoddy service and uninformed business owners have no motivation to learn anything because they'll be making bank regardless. Overall it's the entire process that's got to change but it's definitely saddening we get so little because we ask for so little. I feel like at this point we're trained to not even ask questions about our hair because the ones treating it know nothing and we've been told so many lies through the years.

 

[LittleLuxe]

Still this was meant to be a fun topic, I think we already know the system's broken. I was just curious to see what were some of the most hair-raising lies you've heard from supposed professionals about your hair.

 

[Miss*Tress]

No.



Free enterprise.



Buyer beware.



She works at the store as a store clerk? Nope. She makes, what, $10/hr. at best so why should she memorize anything about any of these products aside from shampoo to clean and conditioner to...condition?



Perhaps an ignorant client base takes the pressure off of ignorant service providers? I mean, if I can make grip off of products that people pretty much buy out of compulsion at this point, what's my motivation to educate myself on the products? It's almost like the fast food industry.

I get what you're saying but something as personal as your physical person shouldn't be trusted to anyone's expected knowledge.

These responses are indicative of unbridled and unethical captialism at its very worst. Customers expect decent product knowledge at Home Depot, car dealerships, Sephora, the fishmonger, etc., but black women shouldn't expect a minimum of decent hair care advice from the BSS? Wow.

ETA: If we don't start demanding good service we will never get it.

 

[kmn1980]

These responses are indicative of unbridled and unethical captialism at its very worst. Customers expect decent product knowledge at Home Depot, car dealerships, Sephora, the fishmonger, etc., but black women shouldn't expect a minimum of decent hair care advice from the BSS? Wow.

ETA: If we don't start demanding good service we will never get it.

I agree with you but we all know the game. Even the folks at Home Depot, Honda, and Sephora are working for income; not because they care what happens to your lawn, car, or skin. Hence recalls. But yeah, the fishmonger better be on point...two pieces of bread on EACH side and no tartar sauce touching the fries or I might have to fight somebody!!!

To address the OP, as far as lies from hair "professionals", um, in my salon days (a decade ago), pretty much everything I heard from anyone who was under 55 was a lie. In the days when I messed with my hair, I only trusted two people to do it, one of them my grandmother.

As far of lack of appropriate knowledge, I once went to a beautician as a teen needing a virgin perm but the girl was so under skilled that she didn't realize it until after she washed the relaxer out and my edges were straight and everything else was curly. She blamed me (age 13) for not telling her that I needed a virgin relaxer . I don't have ambiguous hair. Any skilled technician with two eyes could see a virgin process would have been appropriate. Anyway, since she was semi-skilled, she commenced to give me a French roll and charged my mom $5 extra for it. God bless Black America.

 

[*crystal*]

I agree with you but we all know the game. Even the folks at Home Depot, Honda, and Sephora are working for income; not because they care what happens to your lawn, car, or skin. Hence recalls. But yeah, the fishmonger better be on point...two pieces of bread on EACH side and no tartar sauce touching the fries or I might have to fight somebody!!!

To address the OP, as far as lies from hair "professionals", um, in my salon days (a decade ago), pretty much everything I heard from anyone who was under 55 was a lie. In the days when I messed with my hair, I only trusted two people to do it, one of them my grandmother.

As far of lack of appropriate knowledge, I once went to as a teen needing a virgin perm but the girl was so under skilled that she didn't realize it until after she washed the relaxer out and my edges were straight and everything else was curly. She blamed me (age 13) for not telling her that I needed a virgin relaxer . I don't have ambiguous hair. Any skilled technician with two eyes could see a virgin process would have been appropriate. Anyway, since she was semi-skilled, she commenced to give me a French roll and charged my mom $5 extra for it. God bless Black America.

Mm, mm, mm!!! BTW, love your reggie!

 

[MarieB]

The ever-popular "If you don't cut it, it won't grow."

 

[MsLizziA]

The ever-popular "If you don't cut it, it won't grow."

bullish... i call it when i see it

 

[Mz.MoMo5235]

-relax from root to tip
-leave relaxer in for atleast 15 min after it starts to burn (no wonder i was pealing my scalp for wks!)
-if you stop relaxing once you've started you hair will break off and wont grow
-dirty scalp is the way to go!
-you need the highest heat your tool is able to go in order to style your hair
-you should only wash your hair 1x per month
-grease and dirt is your friend/water is your enemy
-little pieces of hair on the bathroom sink from brushing is normal!!! that's shed hair!
-dc's is some white folk mess
-if it doesnt have a picture of africa or a black person on the label, its not for us

 

[belldandy]

ITA, I always heard "if you don't trim it won't grow" I am so glad I just stopped doing anything to my hair for a while.

 

[LittleLuxe]

"I agree with you but we all know the game. Even the folks at Home Depot, Honda, and Sephora are working for income; not because they care what happens to your lawn, car, or skin. Hence recalls. "

I don't have any issue with folks working for income but I've definitely gotten more support, useful information, and downright concern from the people at all of those establishments (excluding Honda) in a year than in all my years of going to salons or BSS. It's a little disheartening because like I said if these establishments catered to a larger market and remained this incompetent they'd go out of business. But because they cater to a mostly Black American market they pretty much run a-mock and nothing is done to try and encourage them to do better. It's shameful but like I said it's the system that's broken and it won't change till the majority do something to demand change.


Mz. MoMo

" -leave relaxer in for atleast 15 min after it starts to burn (no wonder i was pealing my scalp for wks!)"

Girl this made me jump! lol. I've got a sensitive scalp and while I know I've stupidly let a perm burn for the sake of utter straightness I still just couldn't help but shudder. Poor you.

"-if you stop relaxing once you've started you hair will break off and wont grow
-you need the highest heat your tool is able to go in order to style your hair"

Ah yes I've heard these and believed them and worst of all...used them. Thankfully I've left the scorching high heat of styling tools for my weaves...those poor babies got a lot of punishment through the years.

 

[LittleLuxe]

Ooh! Just remembered another one. Being told that while using the scorching high heat of a styling tool and watching the smoke rise up from it to the ceiling...no there was absolutely nothing wrong with that. That was normal... it's a damn wonder my hair didn't catch fire or I burned down the house.

 

[belldandy]

"that burning smell..oh girl thats normal u just being sensitive, this is gonna get your hair real straight."

 

[LittleLuxe]

Lol, girl belldandy you and me ae hair twins (cept yours looks cuter), is there any bad piece of advice we haven't been told or heard.

I swear I used to sit in my hairstylist's chair terrified as she neared me with a flat iron because I could hear the snap-crackle-popping sound the tool was making. No wonder I'd jump by the time the thing finally hit my hair!

 

[MsLizziA]

"that burning smell..oh girl thats normal u just being sensitive, this is gonna get your hair real straight."

Ooh! Just remembered another one. Being told that while using the scorching high heat of a styling tool and watching the smoke rise up from it to the ceiling...no there was absolutely nothing wrong with that. That was normal... it's a damn wonder my hair didn't catch fire or I burned down the house.

girl i remember them days.. they dagger was 99% of the time it wasn't even product burn off BECAUSE heat protectants were none exsistn in my worl..

 

[belldandy]

Lol, girl belldandy you and me ae hair twins (cept yours looks cuter), is there any bad piece of advice we haven't been told or heard.

I swear I used to sit in my hairstylist's chair terrified as she neared me with a flat iron because I could hear the snap-crackle-popping sound the tool was making. No wonder I'd jump by the time the thing finally hit my hair!

Hey, thanks! Do u have a fotki?

LOL at snap, crackle, pop!

 

[LittleLuxe]

Ms.LizziA -

So true, swear I didn't use a heat protectant till a month ago but rest assured I've been using flat irons and curling irons practically from birth. Thank you LHCF maybe thanks to you I'll actually hit the 'cute' stage in my hair cycle again while also having healthy strong hair. I already feel like I've learned so much and am really proud of myself for being informed.

belldandy -

No fotki yet, though I guess I've gotta get on that boat lol, I think it's kind of brilliant to mark your progress and see how far you come along. I'm going to be getting a good camera in the summer. I'm actually trying to start a fashion/makeup/skin-care (and now hair, lol) blog so I'll need it for that too.