HELP!!!!!!!!!!!! THE SALTED HAIR REMIX!

[Irresistible]

OK A pic now with the oil mixed in, took some of the 'froth' away


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I cant rinse it , gotta leave it all in overnight , but I think this is just what it needed, some oil

 

[Starr1]

I don't agree...

Someone, probably gymfreak schooled me on sodium depositing in hair a little while ago.

It's the reason that it's important to chelate hair that is relaxed using Calcium Hydroxide... but you don't have to chelate hair that is relaxed with Sodium Hydroxide.

I'll go see exactly what was said...

Although Sodium Hydroxide (lye; NaOH) has a different chemical structure than Sodium Chloride (table salt; NaCl) and the former being far more caustic than common table salt, they are both still salts none-the-less. Salt by it's very nature draws water out of cells through osmosis and creates a drying effect. And they are both alkali metals, which can bond to hair. Chelation removes metals from the hair shaft (thus why it is recommend that those who live in areas with hard water chelate more often).

And true, one does not chelate immediately after using sodium hydroxide, but that is because chelating would disrupt the newly formed chemical bonds. . . when adding a salt to the hair, the hair's natural hydrogen and ionic (salt) bonds are disrupted and broken down (and sometimes destroyed) and new bonds weaker bonds are formed. Thus how a relaxer works. Chelation is the process of molecular binding- the opposite of what a relaxer seeks to achieve.

My point is- if Irresistable wants her hair back, or as close to the way it way, she should chelate.

 

[Neith]

Although Sodium Hydroxide (lye; NaOH) has a different chemical structure than Sodium Chloride (table salt; NaCl) and the former being far more caustic than common table salt, they are both still salts none-the-less. Salt by it's very nature draws water out of cells through osmosis and creates a drying effect. And they are both alkali metals, which can bond to hair.

And true, many people do not generally chelate after using sodium hydroxide, but that is because chelating would disrupt the newly formed chemical bonds. . . when adding a salt to the hair, the hair's natural hydrogen and ionic (salt) bonds are disrupted and broken down and new bonds weaker bonds are formed. Thus how a relaxer works. Chelation is the process of molecular binding- the opposite of what a relaxer seeks to achieve.

Why don't chelating neutralizing shampoos affect the relaxer?

I know that hydrogen bonds are broken down in the process, but I was under the impression that the main source of straightening from relaxers comes from the breaking down of proteins in the cortex.

Hydrogen bonds are always broken... even in a simple wet rollerset.

Right?

 

[Irresistible]

Although Sodium Hydroxide (lye; NaOH) has a different chemical structure than Sodium Chloride (table salt; NaCl) and the former being far more caustic than common table salt, they are both still salts none-the-less. Salt by it's very nature draws water out of cells through osmosis and creates a drying effect. And they are both alkali metals, which can bond to hair. Chelation removes metals from the hair shaft (thus why people it is recommend that those who live in areas with hard water chelate more often). Sodium (Na) itself has an entirely different structure.

And true, many people do not generally chelate after using sodium hydroxide, but that is because chelating would disrupt the newly formed chemical bonds. . . when adding a salt to the hair, the hair's natural hydrogen and ionic (salt) bonds are disrupted and broken down and new bonds weaker bonds are formed. Thus how a relaxer works. Chelation is the process of molecular binding- the opposite of what a relaxer seeks to achieve.

My point is- if Irresistable wants her hair back, or as close to the way it way, she should chelate.

I live in hard water and all that never did to my hair what this did, so I'm confused. whats worse these hard metals in the water or sodium? my hair has still been thriving even in this hard water area, didnt even feel or notice much difference , untill I did this, I'm scared to chelate when the sodium just took everything out it seems, but if in a few days my hair doesnt recover thats what I will do, even if sodium moves water out, once its removed it cant keep it out can it? or your saying its not removed except by chelation?

 

[Irresistible]

Why don't chelating neutralizing shampoos affect the relaxer?

I know that hydrogen bonds are broken down in the process, but I was under the impression that the main source of straightening from relaxers comes from the breaking down of proteins in the cortex.

Hydrogen bonds are always broken... even in a simple wet rollerset.

Right?

i'm so confrused!

 

[Irresistible]

I'm also confused because many said some conditioners have sodium in them too

 

[Starr1]

Why don't chelating neutralizing shampoos affect the relaxer?

I know that hydrogen bonds are broken down in the process, but I was under the impression that the main source of straightening from relaxers comes from the breaking down of proteins in the cortex.

Hydrogen bonds are always broken... even in a simple wet rollerset.

Right?

Once bonds in the hair are destroyed they can not be repaired, because they no longer exist. A chelating neutralizing shampoo can only work to bind what is left.

Proteins in the hair are held together by disulphide bonds (or single covalent bonds) and breaking these bonds are how a relaxer works. However often times relaxers not only break these bonds, but destroy some of them as well- which is why relaxers are irreversible.

 

[Starr1]

I'm also confused because many said some conditioners have sodium in them too

It's true that some shampoos and conditioners contain sodium in the form of detergents such as sodium laureth/lauryl sulfates, etc. however in these forms it no longer a "pure" alkali salt as it consists of very little sodium and therefore no where near as caustic (however SLES and SLS are still irritants). See:

This is sodium laureth sulfate:
CH3(CH2)10CH2(OCH2CH2)nOSO3Na

This is sodium lauryl sulfate:
C12H25SO4Na

This is table salt:
NaCl


There is very little to fear from regular shampoo and conditioner, as the sodium is further "watered" down by all the other ingredients in the shampoo or conditioner as well.

 

[Neith]

Once bonds in the hair are destroyed they can not be repaired, because they no longer exist. A chelating neutralizing shampoo can only work to bind what is left.

Proteins in the hair are held together by disulphide bonds (or single covalent bonds) and breaking these bonds are how a relaxer works. However often times relaxers not only break these bonds, but destroy some of them as well- which is why relaxers are irreversible.

Yeah, but you said that people don't chelate after relaxing because it would interfere with the relaxing process... how/why?

It's true that some shampoos and conditioners contain sodium in the form of detergents such as sodium laureth/lauryl sulfates, etc. however in these forms it no longer a "pure" alkali salt as it consists of very little sodium and therefore no where near as caustic (however SLES and SLS are still irritants). See:

This is sodium laureth sulfate:
CH3(CH2)10CH2(OCH2CH2)nOSO3Na

This is sodium lauryl sulfate:
C12H25SO4Na

This is table salt:
NaCl


There is very little to fear from regular shampoo and conditioner, as the sodium is further "watered" down by all the other ingredients in the shampoo or conditioner as well.

It was pointed out in one of the big salt threads that some conditioners and shampoos have sodium chloride in them.


Imma have to go to bed, but I'm looking forward to further discussion. I love "hair science"

 

[hothair]

How much salt did you use? There shouldn't be anymore in your hair, I haven't used Aveda Brilliant I use DR but I don't think it foams much so it may be the Elucence, I say rinse out and see how your hair feels, if it stills feel dry maybe you'd want to DC with a conditioner you're already used to (I like Nexxus Humectress)

 

[Irresistible]

Yeah, but you said that people don't chelate after relaxing because it would interfere with the relaxing process... how/why?




It was pointed out in one of the big salt threads that some conditioners and shampoos have sodium chloride in them.


Imma have to go to bed, but I'm looking forward to further discussion. I love "hair science"

Well if your hair is ok, I'm gonna trust mine will be too, this cant be much more complicated than if you jumped in the ocean....right?

 

[Starr1]

I live in hard water and all that never did to my hair what this did, so I'm confused. whats worse these hard metals in the water or sodium? my hair has still been thriving even in this hard water area, didnt even feel or notice much difference , untill I did this, I'm scared to chelate when the sodium just took everything out it seems, but if in a few days my hair doesnt recover thats what I will do, even if sodium moves water out, once its removed it cant keep it out can it? or your saying its not removed except by chelation?

It all comes down to balance. Hard water, is full of calcium and magnesium. Sodium can be used to soften water. Most shampoos and conditioners are formulated to work in hard water areas- commercial ones use SLS to strike a balance and natural ones use citric acid (also a natural water softener).

Problems arise when too much of either metal is present. Hard water in general is not harmful, but can leave the residue-which over time can build up. Artificially softened water with too much sodium can be drying.

Chelation basically removes all the metal "buildup" so you can start from scratch.

 

[Irresistible]

How much salt did you use? There shouldn't be anymore in your hair, I haven't used Aveda Brilliant I use DR but I don't think it foams much so it may be the Elucence, I say rinse out and see how your hair feels, if it stills feel dry maybe you'd want to DC with a conditioner you're already used to (I like Nexxus Humectress)

I only used about 1/2 tsp to a bottle of conditioner

I added lots of oil , so we will see how this goes later, hopefully that rectified the situation

 

[Irresistible]

It all comes down to balance. Hard water, is full of calcium and magnesium. Sodium can be used to soften water. Most shampoos and conditioners are formulated to work in hard water areas- commercial ones use SLS to strike a balance and natural ones use citric acid (also a natural water softener).

Problems arise when too much of either metal is present. Hard water in general is not harmful, but can leave the residue-which over time can build up. Artificially softened water with too much sodium can be drying.

Chelation basically removes all the metal "buildup" so you can start from scratch.

well once I get my hair in better shape from all this I might just go on and chelate, although I'm scared of that too

 

[discodumpling]

Honey and olive oil treatment...STAT! LOL! If that doesn't work you can try my avacado recipe in the recipe forum....NOTHING works better to restore moisture. Good luck and let us know how you got your moisture groove back!

 

[Vshanell]

I don't think I will be trying this after all. Hope u get your moisture back iris. Something that always helps me when I need extra moisture is s curl. Gets the job done everytime.

 

[MAMATO]

Salt is a mineral that bonds to the hair and regardless of how little you use it can result in dryness and sometimes damage. Your hair may temporarily feel soft, but that is only because the salt rubs the cuticles and creates artificial weathering- in other word: a stone left in a river becomes smooth, but over time the river wears it down to nothing. The salt does the same thing to the hair. Because salt forms a bond to the hair on a molecular level, regular shampooing, clarifying, and rinsing will not get rid of it.

In order to break the chemical bonds you will need to use a chelating (not clarifying) shampoo and follow it up with a deep conditioning treatment.

I totally agree with Starr1, that's exactly what I was trying to tell you guys yesterday. Salt is a mineral, though a chemical product (NaCl) that you naturally find everywhere, but that doesn't mean it is inoffensive for our health and hair. Sorry Iris that happened to you, a chelating shampoo will definetely help you.

 

[BostonMaria]

Iris, have you tried adding pepper to your hair? LMAO! Just kidding! I'm actually surprised you even put this in your hair. I'm about to mix some Goya Adobo in my hair to add some spice to my life LOL

Morning ladies! I was up all night reading this thread on my Blackberry!

 

[Irresistible]

I don't think I will be trying this after all. Hope u get your moisture back iris. Something that always helps me when I need extra moisture is s curl. Gets the job done everytime.

Aww girl I swurr it aint no worse than a clarifying treatment, actually my hair was worse off then, and even with protein before, its reminding me of when I clarified trying to get the moisture back , it wasnt easy then either, I trust this is going to be ok, like I said aint nobody jump in the ocean and had jacked hair for life, its gonna be alright

no reason for you to try this , unless you want to clarify, this was actually less stripping than a clarifying shampoo

see ya'll just dont know I dont do 'clarified' hair thats why I am having a problem with how it feels right now, just like when I clarified, thats all

but if you dont clarify dont bother, i wont be again

 

[Irresistible]

Iris, have you tried adding pepper to your hair? LMAO! Just kidding! I'm actually surprised you even put this in your hair. I'm about to mix some Goya Adobo in my hair to add some spice to my life LOL

Morning ladies! I was up all night reading this thread on my Blackberry!

haha you got jokie jokes!

I actually cant believe I did this either, I keep saying that to myself, this was not like me ,

 

[Irresistible]

I totally agree with Starr1, that's exactly what I was trying to tell you guys yesterday. Salt is a mineral, though a chemical product (NaCl) that you naturally find everywhere, but that doesn't mean it is inoffensive for our health and hair. Sorry Iris that happened to you, a chelating shampoo will definetely help you.

well its next on the list if this oil treatment doesnt work, if oil dont work then I know I'm is in trouble!

 

[Irresistible]

Honey and olive oil treatment...STAT! LOL! If that doesn't work you can try my avacado recipe in the recipe forum....NOTHING works better to restore moisture. Good luck and let us know how you got your moisture groove back!

ok thats next on the list!

I have avocado oil in my hair right now and will find your recipe too

 

[Irresistible]

I have some other butter here and some oils and some Shea Butter on the way in a day or two.......if all that dont fix it, plus the olive oil/honey and other Avocado recipe, then yeah its Chelation time!

I think this will bring it back though, well I pray so!!!

 

[Irresistible]

I don't think I will be trying this after all. Hope u get your moisture back iris. Something that always helps me when I need extra moisture is s curl. Gets the job done everytime.

oh and this Aveda has Glycerine it so I'm getting that s curl juice already hoity toity style

 

[Leeda.the.Paladin]

Iris, have you tried adding pepper to your hair? LMAO! Just kidding! I'm actually surprised you even put this in your hair. I'm about to mix some Goya Adobo in my hair to add some spice to my life LOL

Morning ladies! I was up all night reading this thread on my Blackberry!

 

[Irresistible]

oke: quit laffin!

 

[BostonMaria]

haha you got jokie jokes!

I actually cant believe I did this either, I keep saying that to myself, this was not like me ,

Yeah that's what I was thinking "this is soooo not like her" LOL
Anyway you live and learn. Salt will be one of those things I won't be trying anytime soon.

 

[EMJazzy]

I'm not fooling with it either....leaving well enough alone.

 

[Irresistible]

I'm not fooling with it either....leaving well enough alone.

Yeah that's what I was thinking "this is soooo not like her" LOL
Anyway you live and learn. Salt will be one of those things I won't be trying anytime soon.

I dont blame ya'll , its not that bad though, its just seems to be a clarifier to me , a mild one really, i just dont like it, but im sure I needed it, prolly should have used something else, but I swear Ive used a clarifying shampoo that was even harsher than this was , baking soda and acv are probably just as drying, that 1tsp of salt on for 10 minutes aint gonna beat me in my battle to get my moisture back-i would highly doubt it

 

[bigdeelight]

I don't know Iris I guess the salt didn't like you. I only had the clarified feeling for one day and even then, my hair just felt really soft. The next day, I co-washed as per usual and used some glycerin. *shrugs* right as rain. And I've actually done the salt thing twice. I used kosher sea salt, though. If that makes a difference.