Help for Frustrated fine-haired 4a?

NappyMD

Well-Known Member
Hi all:

I just joined your community and it seems to have a wealth of information. Maybe one or more of you lovely ladies can help me make a decision.
I have been natural for 10+ years. I have mainly been subsisting on twists, and have several problems now.

1. My hair is thin. As it gets longer, my fine, once-upon-a-time layered hair looks sparse in twists. I keep having to put it in a ponytail so it won't be so see-through. only my twistouts seem thick enough. I recently learned how to do twist extensions, but when I take them down it seems like there is a lot of tangling and cutting.

2. My hair is dry. I went school on the east coast, and was weAring my hair in braids or relaxed before. In it's natural form and out of braids, my hair is really experiencing California for the desert it is, and if I'm not careful it gets un- healthy and starts breaking off.

3. I am bored. Ten years of twists, twistouts, twist extensions, and the occassional blow dry/press is getting boring and I can't seem to figure out the flat twist, braid (my hair's even thinner), or other styles.

4. I am busy! My job has me working 60+ hours a week. I want my hair to grow, but don't have much time to deal with it

so I am starting to wonder if I should texlax, maybe get a texture similar to a twist out that I can wash and go and still wear a ponytail? I am going to try the wash n go on my natural hair today but unsure if I can reliably pull off a ponytail or something.

So do I have a hair twin out there that's been though something nsimlar and made the right choice, or any other advice?

Thanks!

3.
 
I would first trying adding or changing your daily moisture routine. I personally like mang butter sealed with castor oil. I have to use a heavy daily moisturizer, and I'm not even in the desert. Most days I do that before bed too. Are you deep conditioning? I just think you need to correct the health before you add a chemical treatment. Also health could be a factor. Usually is for me.

As for styles, have you tried roller sets or curl formers? They're a little time consuming (for me anyhow) but they could last you a few days though. Just a few ideas- I'm definetely not an expert, but I remember when my sis went through this post chemo.
 
Thanns,

I should have said the health is ok as long as it is in a twist or something, but I can't just have it out for long or it dries up. I am thinking frequent cowashing may help me, cause my hair loves the water. I am also trying to figure out this no combing thing so I can wash more without pulling out more hair. :ohwell:
 
Hi there,

I read your post. I think we have similar hair. I'm a fine haired, 4a natural. Currently, I'm trying to get to full APL. My hair looks sparse in twists. Twist outs or braids outs look best on me, too. I'd love to wear my hair in twists all the time, but they're just not for me. :nono:

I've been natural for about ten years, too, but I"ve only recently (past year or so) started to really care for and learn about my hair. This forum is great and I"ve learned a lot here. It's how I managed to get to APL at all. :grin:

At any rate, you had a lot of concerns in your post and I"ll do my best to address them based on my experiences and what I"ve researched here. My responses are in bold.

1. 1. My hair is thin. As it gets longer, my fine, once-upon-a-time layered hair looks sparse in twists. I keep having to put it in a ponytail so it won't be so see-through. only my twistouts seem thick enough. I recently learned how to do twist extensions, but when I take them down it seems like there is a lot of tangling and cutting.

If you're going to put extensions in your hair, you have to be certain that you prep your hair appropriately before you put them in, that you're using the right type of hair for the extensions, that you're maintaining your hair properly while they're in extensions and that you take them our in the appropriate way. Extensions can be a great way to grow your hair or to let it rest or to experiment with different styles. Here are a couple of links to some threads and websites that you should read through and research if you plan on continuing with your twist extensions:

www.growafrohairlong.com

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=122779&highlight=braid+maintenance -selfbraiders

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=254989&highlight=braids+without+extensions

2. My hair is dry. I went school on the east coast, and was weAring my hair in braids or relaxed before. In it's natural form and out of braids, my hair is really experiencing California for the desert it is, and if I'm not careful it gets un- healthy and starts breaking off.

What sort of regimen do you have now? Do you moisturize and seal with butter/oil? How often? Do you deep condition? How often? Do you cowash Do you wash with a moisturizing shampoo? If so, what kind of products are you using? Do you use a leave-in conditioner? Natural hair seems to need a lot more moisture than relaxed hair, which tends to need more protein due to the chemicals in relaxers.

I deep condition with Elasta QP DPR (found in beauty stores), SitriNilllah Deep Condition Masque, Aubrey Organics Honey Suckle Rose Conditioner or Jasons Sea Kelp Shampoo mixed with coconut oil, castor oil, honey, or coconut milk. I usually deep condition under a heating cap for an hour or more. My leave-ins are the afrodetangler or KinkyCurlys Knot Today. Both are great.

I moisturize with Qhemet Biologics Burdock Root Butter Cream. Excellent! I seal my ends with coconut oil. I do cowashes with Vo5 and Suave conditioners, which also help to keep my hair moisturized, especially since I'm using Boundless Tresses (a sulfur based growth aid) on my scalp to help thicken up my hairline. Jamaican Black Castor Oil or regular castor oil is said to be good for thickening up hair, too. Then I proceed with styling.

Here are a couple of links to some places were you might be able to find some haircare products that work for you:

www.hairveda.com
www.afroveda.com
www.oyinhandmade.com
www.qhemetbiologics.com
www.vitacost.com
www.sistasplacebiz.com


3. I am bored. Ten years of twists, twistouts, twist extensions, and the occassional blow dry/press is getting boring and I can't seem to figure out the flat twist, braid (my hair's even thinner), or other styles.

Youtube has an enormous amount of tutuorials available for people who are trying to learn how to do different styles. That's what I used to figure out a lot of the different styles that I"ve tried. It just takes practice, time, and a couple of good mirrors.

In lieu of that, you might want to research natural salons in your area and see if you can find a stylist who'd be able to give you some different styles without jacking up your hair. I don't go to salons myself. I have an aversion of them based on past experiences, but if you find a really good one, it could be beneficial to you.

4. I am busy! My job has me working 60+ hours a week. I want my hair to grow, but don't have much time to deal with it

Haircare takes time, particularly if you're living in an environment, which doesn't promote hair growth. Trust me! Particularly during the school year, when my days are long, and particularly when I was working on my master's degree and working, I barely had enough time to breathe. But, I also didn't want my hair breaking off either.

Try your best to find time within your schedule to take care of YOU and YOUR HAIR. I'm often doing two and three things at once as I deep condition my hair. I'm cooking, working on the computer, and/or talking on the phone with my hair slathered in honey, castor oil, and aubrey organics under a plastic cap. :lachen:Plus, once you have a good regimen established with products that work for you and you understand how your hair works, what it can and cannot take, what it likes and does not like, you'll find that the whole process goes A LOT faster.

so I am starting to wonder if I should texlax, maybe get a texture similar to a twist out that I can wash and go and still wear a ponytail? I am going to try the wash n go on my natural hair today but unsure if I can reliably pull off a ponytail or something.

As to texlaxing...I'm not sure you want to go changing the texture of your hair until you're experienced in taking care of the hair that you have. Or...if you really do want to texlax, you're going to need to research how you need to maintain your hair while it's texlaxed and still build a good regimen for yourself, otherwise you'll be back to square one...just with texlaxed hair. :rolleyes:

So do I have a hair twin out there that's been though something nsimlar and made the right choice, or any other advice?

I hope I've helped a little.
Happy growing! :grin:
 
Thanns,

I should have said the health is ok as long as it is in a twist or something, but I can't just have it out for long or it dries up. I am thinking frequent cowashing may help me, cause my hair loves the water. I am also trying to figure out this no combing thing so I can wash more without pulling out more hair. :ohwell:

To avoid pulling out hair when I cowash, particularly if I've been wearing a twistout or playing in my hair, I prefer cowashing out of the shower. I spritz my hair with water on the ends, then I divide my hair in sections (ususally about eight). I put a lot of conditioner (V05 or Suave :lick:) on each sections. I massager some of the conditioner into my scalp. Then I GENTLY work through my hair started at the ends with a wide toothed comb until I get to the roots of the hair.

When I want to seriously detangler. I whip out my handy-dandy Denman 41. This brush is great for detangling and for removing shed hair. I start at the ends and GENTLY work my way to the root. I've found that I rip out A LOT less hair this way. For me, because my of my find hair, partience is the key. I can't cowash...SHOOT, I can't even comb my hair if I'm in a rush or something, because I know I'll end up ripping some out. I've done it before. :ohwell: After the combing and denman brushing, I rinse each secion with cool water. Then I apply my leave-in, moisturize, butter/oil, twist and airdry.
 
I can totally understand the lack of time problem. Though to keep your hair healthy, at least once a week, or every week and a half, when you wash it helps tremendously to deep condition with heat. Plan on spending a chuck of time here, 20 mins is good. Then depending on how you choose to style, either roller set, twist, braid, whatever. I wore my hair naturally curly for many years and now I'm wearing it straightened. The time I spend now roller setting & flat ironing when I wash, compared to the time I spent styling every morning (either getting it wet again, or steaming in the shower, partially drying it, etc) is actually less. I do my hair when I wash it, bun it at night, & I'm good to go in the morning.

Personally, I've been very happy with the BKT I did last month. It's made my hair much easier to manage, still natural curls, and is so much easier to manage. That's something else you might consider if it appeals to you.
 
Hi!

I'm not qualified to comment on the thinness, as I have ultra-thick 4a hair. However, I grew up in California, and I must say DEEP CONDITION DEEP CONDITION DEEP CONDITION!!!!! Moisturize, seal, DEEP CONDITION!! I grew up in Oakland, but the vast majority of my family is in the Tulare, Hanford, Bakersfield area, i.e. central desert California. It is dry as all get-out, and HOT!! My eighty-one year old WL natural grandmother uses Vo5 strawberries and cream to wash her hair, then uses it again mixed with some EVOO and takes her daily 3 mile walk with it on (the heat helps it penetrate), then rinses it out, puts more Vo5 on, and braids and buns her hair. She's been doing it for as long as I can remember. She says you must mix oils into the conditioner because the heat is so very strong. I prefer avocado oil, but I think EVOO, EVCO will also work very well. Good luck!
 
Thanks, Quasimodi! I stole your regimen today and the little puff I made with my wash n go hair was very cute! My curly fro is also very charming! I think I will try the daily cowashing for a while with dc and baggying since it is hot and dry here and I workup a daily sweat.

Any other fine haired girls willing to post their routines? :yep:
 
Hi there!!!!

Welcome Nappy MD!!!!

I think that means you are a Doctor - so that means you are smarter than me........:giggle:

Anyhoo!!!!
Welcome! there is a wealth of info here......I think you will certainly find your 'holy grails'...

In the meantime... I think what you need ( and probably what you have needed - from your story - ) is major moisture.....

The first concoction that I recommend to my friends and Fam is the following.... Many ladies here use it - and this seems to strengthen and provide uber moisture....


Aloe Vera Juice ( food grade - available at whole foods or health food Stores)
Vegetable Glycerin
distilled water - and essential oils ( peppermint or whatever you like)

I use:
5 oz juice
1 oz water
1 oz Glycerin
5 to 10 drops of eo....

Place in a spray bottle and spray away for moisturized hair!

The other thing I can recommend is Deep Conditioning For AT LEAST an hour weekly.... With GREAT condishes. There are lots of things out there....
But I don't use many commercial products.... The keys to great conditioners for most of us with fine hair and curly coils......is:

Super SLIP.....
Super Moisture.....

Look for conditioners with Behtrimonium Methosulfate.... ( BTMS)... if it is the 2nd or 3rd ingredient..... It should work well for your hair....
It will take some time to get your moisture levels up.... But I am sure you will learn and know what is best for your strands!

One other treatment that I do once a month is - the Carmel treatment....it is a Pre shampoo treatment.. Do a search - for "yum...carmel" - you will find it!

My Routine is:

Pre poo ( this rotates in 4 week rotations : moisture, eggs/yogurt for protien, carmel, and Cassia )
Shampoo
Deep condish with moisture
Use Leave ins....

HHG!
 
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The easiest hair style in the world is a wash and go afro. It doesn't require any manipulation. You just condition your hair, shape it with your fingers, and then go. To jazz it up, you add a pretty headband or flower.

Seriously, other races get a nice haircut that lasts them 6 weeks and they just wash it and go. I know our hair is dryer and needs a little bit more moisture, but the styling can be as easy or as hard as we make it.

Also YouTube is wonderful for new hairstyles. Subscribe to a few people's channels and whenever they post, it will come to your inbox and you will eventually have several new styles in your arsenal.
 
On wash day I shampoo with M.O.P C hydrating shampoo. If I am doing a protein treatment I will use Aphogee 2 minute right after I shampoo, then I will follow with M.O.P Extreme Moisture and sit under the steamer for 20 - 30 mintues. I usally add some Lekair Cholestrol to help me detangle in the shower. If I notice that my cuticles are too open from the DC'ing (which may happen if you have fine hair) I'll use Porsity Control conditioner to close the cuticles. My hair don't like moisturizers, so I mostly use water maybe a little rose water mix, Cantu Shea Butter LI, and seal with refined Shea Butter or Castor oil.

If I prepoo, I steam, and then I rinse; normally I don't shampoo because it opens my cuticles too much and I don't like the way my hair feels.
 
thanks, that is just the kind of specific info I needed! And your hair is awesome. Unfortunately we don't learn much about hair care in medical school so I will have to rely on you girls for this portion of my education. And definitely not smarter than you (common misperception! :giggle:)

You're right, I have needed more moisture but had no idea how to get it. I wish I had found this site earlier! Already I am on my second day of a wash n go puff (rinsed today) and my hair is so happy! I am hooked on this website! :yep:

Hi there!!!!

Welcome Nappy MD!!!!

I think that means you are a Doctor - so that means you are smarter than me........:giggle:

Anyhoo!!!!
Welcome! there is a wealth of info here......I think you will certainly find your 'holy grails'...

In the meantime... I think what you need ( and probably what you have needed - from your story - ) is major moisture.....

The first concoction that I recommend to my friends and Fam is the following.... Many ladies here use it - and this seems to strengthen and provide uber moisture....


Aloe Vera Juice ( food grade - available at whole foods or health food Stores)
Vegetable Glycerin
distilled water - and essential oils ( peppermint or whatever you like)

I use:
5 oz juice
1 oz water
1 oz Glycerin
5 to 10 drops of eo....

Place in a spray bottle and spray away for moisturized hair!

The other thing I can recommend is Deep Conditioning For AT LEAST an hour weekly.... With GREAT condishes. There are lots of things out there....
But I don't use many commercial products.... The keys to great conditioners for most of us with fine hair and curly coils......is:

Super SLIP.....
Super Moisture.....

Look for conditioners with Behtrimonium Methosulfate.... ( BTMS)... if it is the 2nd or 3rd ingredient..... It should work well for your hair....
It will take some time to get your moisture levels up.... But I am sure you will learn and know what is best for your strands!

One other treatment that I do once a month is - the Carmel treatment....it is a Pre shampoo treatment.. Do a search - for "yum...carmel" - you will find it!

My Routine is:

Pre poo ( this rotates in 4 week rotations : moisture, eggs/yogurt for protien, carmel, and Cassia )
Shampoo
Deep condish with moisture
Use Leave ins....

HHG!
 
The easiest hair style in the world is a wash and go afro. It doesn't require any manipulation. You just condition your hair, shape it with your fingers, and then go. To jazz it up, you add a pretty headband or flower.

Seriously, other races get a nice haircut that lasts them 6 weeks and they just wash it and go. I know our hair is dryer and needs a little bit more moisture, but the styling can be as easy or as hard as we make it.

Also YouTube is wonderful for new hairstyles. Subscribe to a few people's channels and whenever they post, it will come to your inbox and you will eventually have several new styles in your arsenal.

Man, that's what I am always saying - why can't we wash and go like everyone else! The answer for me was that my hair got too dry, but you ladies are helping me out in this department. Yay! I hope I can get away with daily wash n go's and still see growth with your help!

About the headbands and accessories - where do you get them? I don't see much variety at my local BSS but really want some! :lick:
 
Ooh and what do you ladies use to dry your wash and go? Do you take a towel with you in the car? I tend to drip for an hour or so and while it's cool now on vacation, it may not go over too well in the hospital! :perplexed
sorry for all the random questions!
 
Everyone has given good advice. I wouldn't do anything drastic to your hair at this point. I take it you're an intern. You're working 24 hour shifts, under strss, etc. You want to K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple sis). You can worry about style next year. My hair was in very good condition when I started intership and looked a hot dry mess when the year was over because I added a chemical (dye) and neglected to moisturize. Just condition, spritz, and tuck the ends under.
 
There was this woman on fotki called littlefish who had fine hair, very long.

My hair is the same way. It did best with a cowash at least every three days.

Also, have you tried small twists? leaving them in and cowashing, shake it out and go.

V05 condish was perfect and I also second the glycerin water and oil spray.

LOTS of info and role models on a site called nappturality.com, too.
 
Thanks, Quasimodi! I stole your regimen today and the little puff I made with my wash n go hair was very cute! My curly fro is also very charming! I think I will try the daily cowashing for a while with dc and baggying since it is hot and dry here and I workup a daily sweat.

Any other fine haired girls willing to post their routines? :yep:

Glad it's working for you now. :grin: With time, you'll probably change things to suit your hair needs better.

Ooh and what do you ladies use to dry your wash and go? Do you take a towel with you in the car? I tend to drip for an hour or so and while it's cool now on vacation, it may not go over too well in the hospital! :perplexed
sorry for all the random questions!

I bought a microfiber towel from Sephora, but you'll be able to find others online or probably in some department stores somewhere. When I wash n' go, I sort of pat my head with it. My hair remains damp, but it soaks up the drippies. :yep:
 
First off, welcome to the forum!

I can kinda understand where you are coming from. I am 4a and parts of my hair has fine strands. The only thing that really comes to mind right now to possibly help you would be to use castor oil on your hair. Castor oil is supposed to be able to thicken up the hair. Plus it's a humectant (it draws water to itself), so if you put it on your hair it will draw moisture from the air to your strands and plump them up some.
 
Everyone has given good advice. I wouldn't do anything drastic to your hair at this point. I take it you're an intern. You're working 24 hour shifts, under strss, etc. You want to K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple sis). You can worry about style next year. My hair was in very good condition when I started intership and looked a hot dry mess when the year was over because I added a chemical (dye) and neglected to moisturize. Just condition, spritz, and tuck the ends under.

Yeah, this last year was internship. I didn't lose any hair, but probably only grew half of my normal amount. Survived on twists, but also tried a dye early in the year and wasn't always the best with moisture! Now I'm starting R2 year in EM so there won't be many overnights and I am ready to be a bit cuter and grow it out. Definitely want to keep it simple throughout, however, since my program is pretty intense. I will definitely try to keep my ends tucked under. :yep:
 
Ooh and what do you ladies use to dry your wash and go? Do you take a towel with you in the car? I tend to drip for an hour or so and while it's cool now on vacation, it may not go over too well in the hospital! :perplexed
sorry for all the random questions!
You could always use a blow dryer (on a low or cool setting) with a diffuser attachment to dry your hair some (until it stops dripping) before leaving the house.

finger-diffuser.jpg
 
Hello,

I have fine hair 4a too but mixed in with some 3c and 4b pieces. And I stopped doing twists because my hair gets too tangled and they look so thin.

I do braidouts but since it has grown a nice pony puff is what I do mostly.

I also use the aloe juice concoction and I have no breakage. I also wash my hair in braids which cuts down on my hair getting tangled.

I would not get a texlax or texturiser, women with finer hair textures have to be aware that chemicals are very taxing on the hair and it will not resolve the sparse hair issue. I got a texturiser in 1993 when they were not even popular then and I learnt my lesson several times that they were not good for my hair and did not loosen my texture significantly, I find that some afro finer haired women tend to be a little more resistant to
chemicals.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
The easiest hair style in the world is a wash and go afro. It doesn't require any manipulation. You just condition your hair, shape it with your fingers, and then go. To jazz it up, you add a pretty headband or flower.
First, welcome to the forum!

About the above...just a word of caution...careful with those WNGs. I wore them all last summer when I first BC'd, but once my hair started getting longer/denser, my ends suffered from getting tangled together and subsequently ripped during detangling. I trimmed in January, did WNGs for a month straight, and had to trim again. I try not to do them that often now -- which is hard, because I love them!!
Ooh and what do you ladies use to dry your wash and go? Do you take a towel with you in the car? I tend to drip for an hour or so and while it's cool now on vacation, it may not go over too well in the hospital! :perplexed
sorry for all the random questions!
I have found that a t-shirt is the best thing for me. I hop out the shower (usually with some conditioner left in my hair), wrap a t-shirt around it, then lotion and get dressed. After 5-10 minutes with a t-shirt on my head, there are no drips, and best of all there is no frizz! If I haven't left in conditioner, I add my leave-in after I remove the t-shirt. I got this method from ladylibra; look up "plopping" and you may be able to get more info.
 
Hello,
I would not get a texlax or texturiser, women with finer hair textures have to be aware that chemicals are very taxing on the hair and it will not resolve the sparse hair issue. I got a texturiser in 1993 when they were not even popular then and I learnt my lesson several times that they were not good for my hair and did not loosen my texture significantly, I find that some afro finer haired women tend to be a little more resistant to
chemicals.

Thanks, I think we can dismiss my threats of texlaxing as the rantings of a crazy woman, especially since when I mentioned the possibility my husband looked at me like :perplexed (he loves natural hair, God Bless him) :grin:

lilsparkle825 said:
About the above...just a word of caution...careful with those WNGs. I wore them all last summer when I first BC'd, but once my hair started getting longer/denser, my ends suffered from getting tangled together and subsequently ripped during detangling. I trimmed in January, did WNGs for a month straight, and had to trim again. I try not to do them that often now -- which is hard, because I love them!!

Oh no! So what do you use for a quick style?
 
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Oh no! So what do you use for a quick style?
I wet bun (dry it to at least 50% with the t-shirt, add leave-in, and bun) or flat twist it after I cowash. That one is the best lately -- cowash, plop, add my leave-in, do 5 big flat twists or cornrows, and put a scarf over it and go to bed. It lasts about 3 days for me.

I will reiterate -- it HURT to have to let the constant WNGs go, but my ends were going through hell.
 
I wanted to add that my pony puff is not a wash and go. I do a braidout and then put it in a pony puff. Wash and Go's I don't do ever because my hair gets too tangled.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
A lot of women gave good advice. I just wanted to add that I'm a fine haired 4a, and I've found that also keeping my hair in buns and weighed down with CAG, conditioners, and pomades helps me minimize knots and tangles. Lucky's Mom and I have a similar routine.

I rarely straighten, but stretched my hair is mid-back, so a fine 4a "can" grow hair, even as a natural.
 
Man, that's what I am always saying - why can't we wash and go like everyone else! The answer for me was that my hair got too dry, but you ladies are helping me out in this department. Yay! I hope I can get away with daily wash n go's and still see growth with your help!

About the headbands and accessories - where do you get them? I don't see much variety at my local BSS but really want some! :lick:

I just keep my eyes open for new accessories and I grab them when I see them. For some people, wash n go's can be drying but for others, they are fabulous. The best way to keep the hair moisturized is to not use shampoo. Just co-wash with conditioner. I also don't get my hair soak and wet every time. I started just putting my head under the shower head for like a few seconds and then adding conditioner. That way, all the moisture is not washed out.

Leave some of the conditioner in and then use a moisturizing spray like one of the ladies suggested you make or maybe use Devacare set it free spray. Then seal it with a light oil.
 
Ooh and what do you ladies use to dry your wash and go? Do you take a towel with you in the car? I tend to drip for an hour or so and while it's cool now on vacation, it may not go over too well in the hospital! :perplexed
sorry for all the random questions!

I may be wrong but I don't think it has to be soak and wet to get the benefits of the moisture. Maybe just put your head under for a few seconds so it is not soaked and it should not drip but be moist.
 
On wash day I shampoo with M.O.P C hydrating shampoo. If I am doing a protein treatment I will use Aphogee 2 minute right after I shampoo, then I will follow with M.O.P Extreme Moisture and sit under the steamer for 20 - 30 mintues. I usally add some Lekair Cholestrol to help me detangle in the shower. If I notice that my cuticles are too open from the DC'ing (which may happen if you have fine hair) I'll use Porsity Control conditioner to close the cuticles. My hair don't like moisturizers, so I mostly use water maybe a little rose water mix, Cantu Shea Butter LI, and seal with refined Shea Butter or Castor oil.

If I prepoo, I steam, and then I rinse; normally I don't shampoo because it opens my cuticles too much and I don't like the way my hair feels.

How can you know if your cuticles are open? What should I look for?
 
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