Genetics and the hope of longer hair

[Nice Lady]

I am sorry but I am not a believer that genetics play a role as Charneda said concerning hair growth and I don't believe in terminal length. In my family, on both my mom's side and father's side the women have long hair(presently) or had hair longer than my hair at my age and they have pictures to prove it. This is with their hair without any perm or press in it(natural state). My mom was telling me how they used coconut oil in their hair and other things and her hair was long. I think the problem was that I never implemented good practices so my hair would grow the longest APL and drop off. Now, I am more determined than ever to grow to WL and I will do the best to....

I don't believe that your hair will never get to a certain length. I began to do research since November 2008 on hair relentlessly and I actually found a picture which I wished I saved of a dark skin African woman in which society claims "can never have any long hair" in the 1800s with hair almost WL in its natural state. I am sure probably she never did what we did with our hair relaxing/hot combing but kept it so since birth and used other natural stuff to help it grow.

 

[ladylibra]

I am sorry but I am not a believer that genetics play a role as Charneda said concerning hair growth and I don't believe in terminal length. In my family, on both my mom's side and father's side the women have long hair(presently) or had hair longer than my hair at my age and they have pictures to prove it. This is with their hair without any perm or press in it(natural state). My mom was telling me how they used coconut oil in their hair and other things and her hair was long. I think the problem was that I never implemented good practices so my hair would grow the longest APL and drop off. Now, I am more determined than ever to grow to WL and I will do the best to....

I don't believe that your hair will never get to a certain length. I began to do research since November 2008 on hair relentlessly and I actually found a picture which I wished I saved of a dark skin African woman in which society claims "can never have any long hair" in the 1800s with hair almost WL in its natural state. I am sure probably she never did what we did with our hair relaxing/hot combing but kept it so since birth and used other natural stuff to help it grow.

okay so... you don't believe that genetics dictate whether or not your hair can grow long... but you're convinced that since the women in your family have long hair, that you can too? that would be going off genetics.

the bolded i think is the issue. y'all think that "terminal length" means we're saying your hair won't grow long. THAT'S NOT WHAT IT MEANS. it simply means your hair isn't going to grow on and on forever length-wise. and as people in this thread have already stated, there is a difference between a growth hurdle and terminal length.

 

[longhairlover]

I don't believe in the genetics stuff either, genetics will give you your hair texture and stuff but I have a friend where my mom started doing her hair weekly and her hair started to grow like crazy with the pampering. now all through elementary and junior high her hair wouldn't grow but with proper care that my moms gave her scalp caused her hair to grow like crazy, so when my mom stopped doing her hair through h.s. she started going to get her wash and sets now her darn hair is past bsl and healthy. So I think all it takes is care if you want long hair or healthy hair.

 

[Nonie]

ah, i see what you're saying now.

however... your hair would still have reached its terminal length at some point in those locs. obviously for you, APL isn't your terminal length. but let's say yours is hip length, and your locs grow to your knees before you decide to unravel them. the bottom 6 inches or so is going to be nothing but shed hair that is matted together, and as you work your way up you will eventually find the true ends of your hair, that are still growing and attached to your scalp but also matted into the loc with your old shed ends.

Thank you! I was just coming to type this for Blue. That if she looks at anyone that ever unraveled really long locs, no one I know ever ended with the same length of stretched hair as the locs, and that's because the ends of the locs were shed hair.

LL, I appreciate you pointing out that terminal length can be determined from unraveling locs. Such a neat idea that never crossed my mind.

 

[Bellamystic]

Okay, I agree with terminal length.

What I do not agree with is the assumption that people of African descent automatically have the short hand of the stick, and that everyone else is out there just magically growing their hair to extreme lengths.

Don't buy that. There is no way to know what someone's genetics are.

I may have reached my terminal length already or be close to it because most women in my family have hair that is SL, and we take pretty good care of our hair. So, I am hoping to make WL, but if I do not, I will have really banging SL hair.

ETA: I wanted to add that I think it is possible that a lot of women do not see the growth rate their hair is capable, and I think that through a good diet and exercise, someone can increase their growth rate.

The thing that will not change is the life cycle of hair.

That was my point exactly TO INCREASE the growth rate no matter what genetics are. Say for instance follicle's hair cycle is 2 years and ur hair grows an average of .5 of an inch month, genetics would say ou could ONLY get 12 inches that's it. But if you increase that rate using whatever then genetics is beat. That was what I was saying, but I see I have been misunderstood. Of course genetics play a role in hair length, but I said it played a LITTLE role. The conclusion of it all was to grow hair as FaST as you can using a speedy hair grower before the follicle dies and u get , some of u guessed it, more hair than what ur genes has set for u to have.

 

[ladylibra]

That was my point exactly TO INCREASE the growth rate no matter what genetics are. Say for instance follicle's hair cycle is 2 years and ur hair grows an average of .5 of an inch month, genetics would say ou could ONLY get 12 inches that's it. But if you increase that rate using whatever then genetics is beat. That was what I was saying, but I see I have been misunderstood. Of course genetics play a role in hair length, but I said it played a LITTLE role. The conclusion of it all was to grow hair as FaST as you can using a speedy hair grower before the follicle dies and u get , some of u guessed it, more hair than what ur genes has set for u to have.

okay, now THAT is an interesting theory... i wonder, do growth aids cause your hair to grow faster, but then you reach your terminal length sooner? or would it enable you to actually grow longer hair?

i would love to see a study on that. obviously would be hard to do, because you'd have to know for sure what your terminal length is. but definitely would be eye-opening!

 

[Nice Lady]

okay so... you don't believe that genetics dictate whether or not your hair can grow long... but you're convinced that since the women in your family have long hair, that you can too? that would be going off genetics.

the bolded i think is the issue. y'all think that "terminal length" means we're saying your hair won't grow long. THAT'S NOT WHAT IT MEANS. it simply means your hair isn't going to grow on and on forever length-wise. and as people in this thread have already stated, there is a difference between a growth hurdle and terminal length.

No, I am not going on the basis of my family genetics at all--that was just an example that they had long hair and I didn't and presently, haven't exceed their hair lengths. I believe that hair maintenance is key to hair length and hair growth. Please read carefully before refruting things and I didn't expect to be chewed out. MAIN POINT: I believe that even if everyone in your family doesn't have long hair doesn't mean that your hair cant be long. In my opinion, it is a foolish assumption to go on genetics because Machierarmour(excuse me if it is misspelled) said that she was the only one that had long hair in her family.

I understand completely WHAT TERMINAL LENGTH MEANS BUT THANKS FOR TYPING WITH CAPS. I don't agree with that either.

 

[Bellamystic]

okay, now THAT is an interesting theory... i wonder, do growth aids cause your hair to grow faster, but then you reach your terminal length sooner? or would it enable you to actually grow longer hair?

i would love to see a study on that. obviously would be hard to do, because you'd have to know for sure what your terminal length is. but definitely would be eye-opening!

Growth aids cause ur hair to grow faster while keeping your follicle's life length. The people that created the OCT (ovation cell therapy) products has already studied this for us. That's why in their informercial they say you can grow your hair how long you like despite genetics. Read their website and studies.

 

[that_1_grrrl]

Just another thing to throw out there is the use of garlic to halt shedding. I am not sure if/how that works, but maybe there are a lot of things at play when it comes to hair growth. Maybe hair growth works like height or skin color. When two people have a baby, the genetics do not set a specific color/height/growth rate but a spectrum and depending on certain factors, anything within that spectrum is possible?

I really wish the studies on hair were more comprehensive, and if they were, they actually gave out all the info.

 

[fyb87]

I don't know..I'm a little torn. I know some people who doesn't do anything to their hair and it's super long. Then on the other hand, I have a sister who barely washes her hair and never deep conditions..and her is thick and it grows. If I were to neglect my hair..it would be on the floor..because of breakage not growth.

I am like your sister. I have had my hair deep conditioned about 5 times my entire life (I'll be 38 this year). I've never done "protective" styling and I've never taken growth aides. To be fair I never heard of protective styling nor growth aides until I came to this forum and to be honest I don't think that will necessarily work. However, I will say I have never been to keen on using heat on my hair (once every two weeks was my limit) and I wouldn't let stylist touch my hair because it would smell burnt when I left. So I would only visit a stylist at the most three times a year when I had a relaxer and once every two years or so when I decided I would no longer get a relaxer.

Anyway, in 2005 I decided that I wouldn't cut my hair anymore to see how long it would grow. It grew to my tailbone by November 2007. Of course I cut it because I was bored and got it colored as well for a hair show I did (boy did my head feel lighter)!! So perhaps it was a combination of genetics and my healthy lifestyle that did the trick. But, honestly I could care less as to the reason. I want healthy hair and if it grows in the process that's great. However, if it bounces and moves when I walk or turn my head I am a TRULY HAPPY camper!

 

[Urban]

Maybe a few people in here don't understand how genes work. Can I just say that genes hold the code for the majority of proteins, receptors and other molecules that your follicles then use to make and grow hair. Without genes, no code = no hair growth.

Transcription of genes is done at different rates depending on other things going on in your cells.

Thirdly, the growth phase of a follicle varies largely between people. Wikipedia says 2-7 years. The amount of time spent in the growth phase is genetically determine - as I've explained, the genes hold the code to the molecules needed to make hair.

How is it then possible that genes have nothing do to with hair growth, hair growth rate and have nothing to do with how long your hair ends up? lol.

 

[Bellamystic]

Maybe a few people in here don't understand how genes work. Can I just say that genes hold the code for the majority of proteins, receptors and other molecules that your follicles then use to make and grow hair. Without genes, no code = no hair growth.

Transcription of genes is done at different rates depending on other things going on in your cells.

Thirdly, the growth phase of a follicle varies largely between people. Wikipedia says 2-7 years. The amount of time spent in the growth phase is genetically determine - as I've explained, the genes hold the code to the molecules needed to make hair.

How is it then possible that genes have nothing do to with hair growth, hair growth rate and have nothing to do with how long your hair ends up? lol.

I have never said genes had nothing at all to do with it, I said it plays a little role, referring to vitamins and enzymes. When we are purposely making our hair grow faster than what our gene's rate is set to. Just like we can workout and alter our genetic body shape. Same scenario, different setting

 

[CurlyMoo]

Genetics plays less of a role in hair length than haircare does. Very few people know their terminal length. Based on what I have heard people say about genetics Black folks should have the terminal length of shoulder length. And furthermore, let us believe that everyone else can have hair to the knees but Black folks.

I think genetics does play a role in hair structure, texture and POSSIBLY length. As I have no evidence that genetics is a factor I am not fully supporting the theory, but it is possible. But I do know that if you are genetically predisposed to have low iron, lack other essential minerals and illnesses this will play a role in how healthy your hair is. Which will lead to breakage. So therefore you will need to give your hair what your body lacks the ability to do.

I think with certain foods, vitamins and haircare many of us can grow to very long lengths in short periods of time even if your hair stops growing after 3 years. And I base this on what I have seen on fotki, LHCF and personal experience. I think it's possible to get around genetics if they are a factor in hair length. As we do see folks in LHCF chugging Biotin like it's the last supper and getting more growth per month than they normally would.

 

[Solitude]

Genetics plays less of a role in hair length than haircare does. Very few people know their terminal length. Based on what I have heard people say about genetics Black folks should have the terminal length of shoulder length. And furthermore, let us believe that everyone else can have hair to the knees but Black folks.

I think genetics does play a role in hair structure, texture and POSSIBLY length. As I have no evidence that genetics is a factor I am not fully supporting the theory, but it is possible. But I do know that if you are genetically predisposed to have low iron, lack other essential minerals and illnesses this will play a role in how healthy your hair is. Which will lead to breakage. So therefore you will need to give your hair what your body lacks the ability to do.

I think with certain foods, vitamins and haircare many of us can grow to very long lengths in short periods of time even if your hair stops growing after 3 years. And I base this on what I have seen on fotki, LHCF and personal experience. I think it's possible to get around genetics if they are a factor in hair length. As we do see folks in LHCF chugging Biotin like it's the last supper and getting more growth per month than they normally would.

ITA with this entire post.

 

[ladylibra]

Nobody is chewing you out. I specifically said "y'all" as in, addressing more than one person. Sorry if you felt singled out.

No, I am not going on the basis of my family genetics at all--that was just an example that they had long hair and I didn't and presently, haven't exceed their hair lengths. I believe that hair maintenance is key to hair length and hair growth. Please read carefully before refruting things and I didn't expect to be chewed out. MAIN POINT: I believe that even if everyone in your family doesn't have long hair doesn't mean that your hair cant be long. In my opinion, it is a foolish assumption to go on genetics because Machierarmour(excuse me if it is misspelled) said that she was the only one that had long hair in her family.

I understand completely WHAT TERMINAL LENGTH MEANS BUT THANKS FOR TYPING WITH CAPS. I don't agree with that either.

 

[CurlyMoo]

The bold is true.

But, someone can do all the "right" things and still never make it to WL or HL because of their genetics (growth rate & strand life cycle).

Example:
If I have a growth rate of .5 inch per month and my strand life cycle is 24 months. Then if I retain every mm of hair the longest my strand can get before it sheds is 12 inches. That may be APL or even BSB.

Someone else who has a growth rate of 1 inch per month and a strand life cycle of 24 months will be able to grow that same strand to 24 inches. That could be WL.

The point is, no matter what I do, I'm still only going to be able to grow 12 inches at the most while others can grow longer. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. Every individual is different.

I see what you're saying Charnedra and it's true, if you want long hair then good haircare practices and a positive attitude are necessary. But at some point your hair just isn't going to get any longer. That's just the way it is.

That may be the case but as others have stated you can increase your growth rate per month.

 

[ladylibra]

What? They have infomercials?

Yes, I will have to look them up and investigate now... my curiosity is piqued

Growth aids cause ur hair to grow faster while keeping your follicle's life length. The people that created the OCT (ovation cell therapy) products has already studied this for us. That's why in their informercial they say you can grow your hair how long you like despite genetics. Read their website and studies.

 

[locabouthair]

Now I'm not saying genetics doesnt play a role I think it does but when it comes to weight loss you dont hear people say well your only gonna lose so much weight cause it's in your genes..people are encouraged to lose as much weight as they want but when it comes to hair growth it's like nah girl, your hair's only gonna up to _____ length, so be happy with what ya have

When the genetic topic comes up, I like to think of it kinda like weight...

Just like someone's genes might make their metabolism slower it doesnt mean they cant lose weight, they need to work out harder. My genes make it harder for me to retain length due to the very kinky hair pattern but it doesnt mean its not possible.

And PLEASE dont look at your family as an indicator of how long your hair can get if the women in your family had bad hair care practices.

 

[Nice Lady]

Nobody is chewing you out. I specifically said "y'all" as in, addressing more than one person. Sorry if you felt singled out.

you specifically, quoted me and attempted to refrute without reading properly. I didn't feel anyway, I actually read and not a functional illerate. But thanks for commenting, have a nice night.

 

[ladylibra]

I quoted other people too. Nobody said you were illiterate. I apologized. Thanks for wishing me a good night as I currently have had a crappy day... although I doubt you were sincere.

you specifically, quoted me and attempted to refrute without reading properly. I didn't feel anyway, I actually read and not a functional illerate. But thanks for commenting, have a nice night.

 

[msa]

That may be the case but as others have stated you can increase your growth rate per month.

I do not believe, and there is no scientific proof, that a person can increase their growth rate past the rate determined by their genetics.

I believe we all have a set growth rate and that because of poor health (due to bad nutrition, lack of exercise, illness, etc) most people are not at their intended rate. For example, instead of growing .5 inches a month they are growing .25 inches a month.

"Growth" aids, IMO, only work for those who have the particular issue that the aid tackles. For example, MN helps those people who have fungus or other scalp issue that is hindering their growth. Or taking vitamins for hair growth only works for those who lack certain vitamins in their regimen.

I do not believe that if my genetically determined growth rate is .5 inches a month that I can increase it to 1 inch a month by using "growth" aids. IMO, it doesn't matter how much exercise you do, how many vitamins you take, or how much megatek/mt/bt/bm/mn/moe gro you put on your scalp, if you are already working at your optimal rate you can't take it further than that. It's like height. Height is predetermined but can be negatively impacted by poor nutrition and other environmental factors that can make the person end up shorter than they would have been. But without serious medical intervention (e.g. growth hormones), you can't just make yourself taller.

 

[Nice Lady]

I quoted other people too. Nobody said you were illiterate. I apologized. Thanks for wishing me a good night as I currently have had a crappy day... although I doubt you were sincere.

It doesn't matter. I am sorry. I realize that was a bit extra.

 

[Eluv]

I do not believe, and there is no scientific proof, that a person can increase their growth rate past the rate determined by their genetics.

I believe we all have a set growth rate and that because of poor health (due to bad nutrition, lack of exercise, illness, etc) most people are not at their intended rate. For example, instead of growing .5 inches a month they are growing .25 inches a month.

"Growth" aids, IMO, only work for those who have the particular issue that the aid tackles. For example, MN helps those people who have fungus or other scalp issue that is hindering their growth. Or taking vitamins for hair growth only works for those who lack certain vitamins in their regimen.

I do not believe that if my genetically determined growth rate is .5 inches a month that I can increase it to 1 inch a month by using "growth" aids. IMO, it doesn't matter how much exercise you do, how many vitamins you take, or how much megatek/mt/bt/bm/mn/moe gro you put on your scalp, if you are already working at your optimal rate you can't take it further than that. It's like height. Height is predetermined but can be negatively impacted by poor nutrition and other environmental factors that can make the person end up shorter than they would have been. But without serious medical intervention (e.g. growth hormones), you can't just make yourself taller.

I agree. However, I'm trying to see if I can be the exception. I'm trying almost everything.

I went natural 2 yrs ago.
Started eating healthy & exercising 1yr ago (to lose weight).
I started taking vitamins, growth aides, and proper hair care about 4 months ago.


I am officially obsessed with my hair. I will patiently wait to see how long my hair can grow.

 

[melodies815]

Genetics plays less of a role in hair length than haircare does. Very few people know their terminal length. Based on what I have heard people say about genetics Black folks should have the terminal length of shoulder length. And furthermore, let us believe that everyone else can have hair to the knees but Black folks.

I think genetics does play a role in hair structure, texture and POSSIBLY length. As I have no evidence that genetics is a factor I am not fully supporting the theory, but it is possible. But I do know that if you are genetically predisposed to have low iron, lack other essential minerals and illnesses this will play a role in how healthy your hair is. Which will lead to breakage. So therefore you will need to give your hair what your body lacks the ability to do.

I think with certain foods, vitamins and haircare many of us can grow to very long lengths in short periods of time even if your hair stops growing after 3 years. And I base this on what I have seen on fotki, LHCF and personal experience. I think it's possible to get around genetics if they are a factor in hair length. As we do see folks in LHCF chugging Biotin like it's the last supper and getting more growth per month than they normally would.

You took the words out of my mouth!!!

Don't want to add to any argument, but I do want to say that (and I hope I am not being too repetitive) because most women with ethnic hair are just starting to learn what their hair can do, most of us have no clue what our "genetics" actually will allow for in terms of hair length. I am a living example of this because my DD doesn't have hair that is much easier to manage than most of my family members...but I treated her hair differently than I did my own...and I did it entirely by accident. I kept it moisturized, I used heat maybe 3-5 times in her entire life up until she was around 9 years old, and I always tucked her single (natural) braids up so that her ends were neat. I tucked with rubber bands. I didn't realize I was protective styling.

Until we moved to Britain with DH and the military, I had no problems with her hair...only mine.

Her hair was waist length with no particular special treatment outside of moisture and protecting the ends. I've now cut it to MBL because the hard water made it difficult for me to know how to take care of her hair and the ends split badly...but after a 3-4 inch cut in April, it's already growing back healthily again. I can see her at WL again by year's end...

I am now taking care of my own hair like I did hers, and I am seeing growth and health that I didn't know was possible with my own hair.

My vote: let's learn about taking care of our hair first, let's see how long we can grow, and maybe in a few years time, we can talk (based on actual evidence) about genetics.

My personal inspirations: Sylver2, Mwedzi, Q, Kinkerbelle, Samantha Jones (Lucky's Mom), JustKiya, and ME (not long yet, but I'm on my way! ) There are MANY others, but I don't know everyone here. Please forgive me for leaving out so many beautiful heads of hair on this board....

Sorry this is so long, but I just don't think anyone can say we should just accept that our hair might not grow to a certain length. Let's take care of our hair and see what happens and then have this debate based on tried and tested information.

Love,
cj

 

[FlowerHair]

I'll say what I've said before:
there are very, very few on this board or elsewhere that have actually taken great care of their hair for a long enough time to even know what their terminal length is.

Hair can grow for up to around 7 years.

Before you've practised excellent hair care for 7 years there is no way of knowing when your hair will stop growing

I'm talking low manipulation, as few chemicals as possible, low/no heat, moisturizing regularly, deep conditioning regularly etc etc.

There is definately hope for MOST of us here! I refuse to believe otherwise.

But if you absolutely want to start out with a defeatist attitude, I'm not going to stop you

 

[chicacanella]

All I know is: The longest I've been in elementary school was BSL and I've never been WL. Now I am MBL or some would say WL. That's because I have a short torso.

So, I'm saying that it's never good to sit around and look at others in a race and complain about what you can't do. Even if you finish dead last, at least you finished.

Don't let anyone stop you from what you want and tell you all the reasons it can't be done. Just do your best and find out yourself what the truth is. Oh, and be sure to track what you are eating or any supplements, products you are taking during that time period.

 

[Urban]

I have never said genes had nothing at all to do with it, I said it plays a little role, referring to vitamins and enzymes. When we are purposely making our hair grow faster than what our gene's rate is set to. Just like we can workout and alter our genetic body shape. Same scenario, different setting

Is it? Where did you get that from? The rate of trasncription doesn't increase infinitely, unless you've got cancer or something like that where you've got faulty regulation mechanisms.

Removing fat from the body (fat that you put into the body), is not the same thing as growing hair. Since you brought up body shape, let me ask you this ... do you think everyone can become as big as Ronnie Coleman (bodybuilder)?

Another question. My parents are averag-ish height ... Do you think, just maybe, if I'd eaten more, slept more or taken more vitamins when I was a child... I could have become as tall as Michael Jordan?

 

[whitedaisez]

The bold is true.

But, someone can do all the "right" things and still never make it to WL or HL because of their genetics (growth rate & strand life cycle).

Example:
If I have a growth rate of .5 inch per month and my strand life cycle is 24 months. Then if I retain every mm of hair the longest my strand can get before it sheds is 12 inches. That may be APL or even BSB.

Someone else who has a growth rate of 1 inch per month and a strand life cycle of 24 months will be able to grow that same strand to 24 inches. That could be WL.

The point is, no matter what I do, I'm still only going to be able to grow 12 inches at the most while others can grow longer. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. Every individual is different.

I see what you're saying Charnedra and it's true, if you want long hair then good haircare practices and a positive attitude are necessary. But at some point your hair just isn't going to get any longer. That's just the way it is.

I TOTALLY agree with the bolded. BUT then again, the AVERAGE life of a hair strand IS FIVE (5) years. So I doubt that anyone has a hair strand life of 24 months or less. Therefore, in FIVE years, even with a very slow growth rate, ANYONE can grow waist length of hair regardless of genetics (unless maybe they are extremely tall).

 

[ladylibra]

I TOTALLY agree with the bolded. BUT then again, the AVERAGE life of a hair strand IS FIVE (5) years. So I doubt that anyone has a hair strand life of 24 months or less. Therefore, in FIVE years, even with a very slow growth rate, ANYONE can grow waist length of hair regardless of genetics (unless maybe they are extremely tall).

I hate to re-join this never-ending, always-heated debate...

But, somebody's follicles do have a 2-year lifespan. And somebody's has a 9-year lifespan. Hence why, 5 years is the average. Very few will be outliers, but they still exist.

Ducking back out because other than that, I really do agree with most of what you said.

 

[msa]

I TOTALLY agree with the bolded. BUT then again, the AVERAGE life of a hair strand IS FIVE (5) years. So I doubt that anyone has a hair strand life of 24 months or less. Therefore, in FIVE years, even with a very slow growth rate, ANYONE can grow waist length of hair regardless of genetics (unless maybe they are extremely tall).

As ladylibra already explained, 5 years is the average for a reason. There are people with much shorter cycles just like there are those with longer cycles.

And frankly, genetics do set the upper limit in this case. No matter what you do, positive attitude, good haircare, and everything else, you can't change your genes. You (general you) need to accept the possibility that you could be the person with the 2 year growth phase, or the .15 inch per month growth rate, or both, and there's nothing you can do about that except to focus on retention and love whatever hair you do have.