Forgiveness

[Chrissy811]

We were having this discussion at lunch today and I was wondering how you felt about this. When you repent do you believe that God forgives you instantly or do you think it is conditional. If so what are the conditions?

 

[JuJuBoo]

Well, God's love is UN-conditional hallelujah! If that wasn't the case we'd all be in deep trouble. haha. BECAUSE of God's love, there's not any sin He CAN'T forgive.

Although people don't like to admit it, there are conditions to forgiveness. I think in order for us to be forgiven, we need to forgive.

Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

So to all yall holding grudges and not forgiving....LET IT GO. In all seriousness though, it's dangerous to hold on to that stuff.

But anyway, I think forgiveness IS at an instant....That is, if you've TRUELY repented. Repentence isn't simply saying "I'm sorry, Lord." It's a lifestyle change. Repentence is a COMPLETE effort in turning 180 degrees AWAY from sin.

So yeah, that's what I've read in the Bible.

 

[sillygurl18]

The Bible says: If you confess your sins He is faithful and just to forgive your sins and cleanse you from all unrighteousness

 

[options]

What if someone has wronged you, and you forgive them, do you need to let them know that you have forgiven them?

And not to equate forgiveness with foolishness, but forgiveness does not mean you leave yourself open to being done wrong by them again, right? For example, say someone did something to you and you have cut them out of your life. In forgiving them, you do not have to let them back in, do you? Even if they want a second (or third or fourth) chance?

 

[Koffie]

What if someone has wronged you, and you forgive them, do you need to let them know that you have forgiven them?

And not to equate forgiveness with foolishness, but forgiveness does not mean you leave yourself open to being done wrong by them again, right? For example, say someone did something to you and you have cut them out of your life. In forgiving them, you do not have to let them back in, do you? Even if they want a second (or third or fourth) chance?

Well, I believe if that person has wronged you to the point where it has become apart of their personality to do you wrong, then yeah, let 'em go. Why should you be miserable because of them? Love that person from a distance is what I say.

 

[options]

Well, I am at the point where I have internally forgiven someone, but I have not spoken about it. I have not told them, nor anyone else. Actually, I no longer speak to them, period, as a result of their infractions against me. They desire to have contact again, but I do not. Is this a form of not truly forgiving someone? Also, my feelings have gone from total anger and revulsion towards them, to simply considering them ignorant and not understanding their actions.

 

[Koffie]

Well, I am at the point where I have internally forgiven someone, but I have not spoken about it. I have not told them, nor anyone else. Actually, I no longer speak to them, period, as a result of their infractions against me. They desire to have contact again, but I do not. Is this a form of not truly forgiving someone? Also, my feelings have gone from total anger and revulsion towards them, to simply considering them ignorant and not understanding their actions.

I think in a sense you have forgiven them, but have now decided to put up a protective shield from this person so that they will not be able to hurt you again, which is totally understandable.

 

[redeemed516]

What if someone has wronged you, and you forgive them, do you need to let them know that you have forgiven them?

And not to equate forgiveness with foolishness, but forgiveness does not mean you leave yourself open to being done wrong by them again, right? For example, say someone did something to you and you have cut them out of your life. In forgiving them, you do not have to let them back in, do you? Even if they want a second (or third or fourth) chance?

The Bible says that we should forgive 70 x 70 (paraphase) so regardless of how many times they do whatever we should continue to forgive them. God is that way with us. I know there was many a time that I wronged Him and many a time it was something that I had done many times before. God is patient and LONGsuffering. That is the way we should strive to be. I am not saying set yourself up for the fall, but we have to LOVE that person in spite of themselves. We have to bear the infirmities of the weak (especially if they are our siblings in Christ) and LOVE those that are not so that they can see Christ in us. Everything that we do should show the love of Christ. God didn't give up on me.

 

[Nyambura]

Well, I am at the point where I have internally forgiven someone, but I have not spoken about it. I have not told them, nor anyone else. Actually, I no longer speak to them, period, as a result of their infractions against me. They desire to have contact again, but I do not. Is this a form of not truly forgiving someone? Also, my feelings have gone from total anger and revulsion towards them, to simply considering them ignorant and not understanding their actions.

This is a good question. What does forgiveness entail? Is it situation-specific? Does it mean embrace, for example, a person who committed violence against you, as you would a good friend? I read that Pope John Paul II (r.i.p.) forgave his assassinator - what did that involve? Does it mean accepting that the person is/was sick, and believing "there but for the grace of God go I"? Is it possible to assert boundaries with someone you've forgiven? Does it mean "forgetting"?

 

[redeemed516]

This is a good question. What does forgiveness entail? Is it situation-specific? Does it mean embrace, for example, a person who committed violence against you, as you would a good friend? I read that Pope John Paul II (r.i.p.) forgave his assassinator - what did that involve? Does it mean accepting that the person is/was sick, and believing "there but for the grace of God go I"? Is it possible to assert boundaries with someone you've forgiven? Does it mean "forgetting"?

Well...the Bible talks about casting our sins/transgressions into the sea of forgetfulness and as far is a the east is from the west. in other words he forgets and they are no longer associated with you. Forgiveness means just that Forgiving. People say all the time i'll forgive but I won't forget. That is like saying if it happens again you will bring it up. it is kind of like holding it over their heads. True forgiveness doesn't work. You have to be willing to forgive the way you want to be forgiven by God. If you "forgive and not forget" that means when you get to heaven..instead of His book showing that you've been forgiven..it will show "Joe Blow was forgiven but well you did x 2309872 times and y 2341343224 times and z 134873 times. I would rather it just said " Redeemed 516-= FORGIVEN!! you can define forgiveness by the way you want to be forgiven. I personally define it as saying you're forgiven either in word, action, works, deed (show some kind of sign) and forgetting about it. Move on in Love

 

[redeemed516]

Well, I am at the point where I have internally forgiven someone, but I have not spoken about it. I have not told them, nor anyone else. Actually, I no longer speak to them, period, as a result of their infractions against me. They desire to have contact again, but I do not. Is this a form of not truly forgiving someone? Also, my feelings have gone from total anger and revulsion towards them, to simply considering them ignorant and not understanding their actions.

If they are seeking reconciliation, i guess that is what they are doing by their desire to have contact, then you as a Christian should be willing to walk out that forgiveness that you have granted. Forgiveness is about restoration. In forgiving you are restoring something that was destroyed by the infraction/sin. By seeking forgiveness you are saying I was wrong and I want to be right again. If I say I am saved and then don't walk out my faith, then am I really doing what i profess. If you say you forgive, but don't walk it out , did you really forgive that person or is a small, minute, tenny Tiny part still trying to hold on to a piece of whatever to justify your actions. You gotta let it alllllll go.

 

[Dutchess]

When you ask God for forgiveness, he will forgive in a big way. First you have to be truly sorry for what you've done. You have to repent and ask for forgiveness and make every possible effort now to repeat the sin. He forgives and doesn't keep count of the injury like imperfect humans do. If we are loyal to God, then God will be loyal to us. We just have to be very sorry for what we did and ask for forgiveness and be specific. I wouldn't say just forgive me, I would say exactly what I wanted to be forgiven for. God reads our hearts so he knows if we are really sorry and if the sin is something that we need help overcoming then we need to pray before it comes up in our hearts.

So YES, God does forgive and I am truly thankful for that.

 

[options]

So what constitutes asking for forgiveness? Does it mean verbalizing something to the affect of, "I am so sorry for _____. I know that it hurt you, and I will never do it again. I humbly am requesting and seeking your forgiveness."

What about when someone wants to just move on from a situation, but hasn't actually asked for forgiveness?

 

[JuJuBoo]

So what constitutes asking for forgiveness? Does it mean verbalizing something to the affect of, "I am so sorry for _____. I know that it hurt you, and I will never do it again. I humbly am requesting and seeking your forgiveness."

What about when someone wants to just move on from a situation, but hasn't actually asked for forgiveness?

Forgiveness comes from the heart. If you've sincerely forgiven someone, you won't have animosity in your heart. I don't think you NEED to verbally say something to them.

Having that said, forgiveness is very different than TRUST. The Bible does NOT say you have to keep trusting someone if they hurt you over and over. For instance, let's say God had called someone into the missionary field and that person kept DENYing and DENYing and disobeying God's command...Would God continue to trust that man or woman to bring the Gospel to the nations? My instinct says "no". I think God would find someone who He KNOWS He could trust with that task. I think it's the same thing with us. YES, we're required to forgive and forgive COMPLETELY, but I don't think we're required to trust that person. As a matter of fact, I think it would be FOOLISH to put your complete trust in someone who's failed you over and over again. YES, you should forgive them, but there needs to be a period where trust is built back up again. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Nyambura]

Well...the Bible talks about casting our sins/transgressions into the sea of forgetfulness and as far is a the east is from the west. in other words he forgets and they are no longer associated with you. Forgiveness means just that Forgiving. People say all the time i'll forgive but I won't forget. That is like saying if it happens again you will bring it up. it is kind of like holding it over their heads. True forgiveness doesn't work. You have to be willing to forgive the way you want to be forgiven by God. If you "forgive and not forget" that means when you get to heaven..instead of His book showing that you've been forgiven..it will show "Joe Blow was forgiven but well you did x 2309872 times and y 2341343224 times and z 134873 times. I would rather it just said " Redeemed 516-= FORGIVEN!! you can define forgiveness by the way you want to be forgiven. I personally define it as saying you're forgiven either in word, action, works, deed (show some kind of sign) and forgetting about it. Move on in Love

So, for example, if someone attempts to murder you and you forgive her/him, that means you've forgotten what they did? How realistic is that, honestly? What about children harmed by sexual and/or physical abuse, something that necessarily bears on the rest of their lives? If they don't forget such traumas, then they haven't "truly" forgiven their predators? Should the victims be willing to invite these predators into their homes, since, after all, the victims have forgiven and forgotten? What if the predators haven't asked for forgiveness? Do you forgive them anyway? And then forget? Even if they've shown no intention of changing? By the way, these aren't imaginary or over-the-top examples I'm giving. Is remembering such a violation holding it over the person's head? Or is forgiveness about having the willingness to give the person a chance to prove s/he's changed? Those aren't the same things. And wouldn't forgetting just cause you to repeatedly put yourself in harm's way?

 

[Nyambura]

Forgiveness comes from the heart. If you've sincerely forgiven someone, you won't have animosity in your heart. I don't think you NEED to verbally say something to them.

Having that said, forgiveness is very different than TRUST. The Bible does NOT say you have to keep trusting someone if they hurt you over and over. For instance, let's say God had called someone into the missionary field and that person kept DENYing and DENYing and disobeying God's command...Would God continue to trust that man or woman to bring the Gospel to the nations? My instinct says "no". I think God would find someone who He KNOWS He could trust with that task. I think it's the same thing with us. YES, we're required to forgive and forgive COMPLETELY, but I don't think we're required to trust that person. As a matter of fact, I think it would be FOOLISH to put your complete trust in someone who's failed you over and over again. YES, you should forgive them, but there needs to be a period where trust is built back up again. Hope that makes sense.

Now this makes sense to me. Thanks for your response, JuJuBoo.

 

[redeemed516]

So, for example, if someone attempts to murder you and you forgive her/him, that means you've forgotten what they did? How realistic is that, honestly? What about children harmed by sexual and/or physical abuse, something that necessarily bears on the rest of their lives? If they don't forget such traumas, then they haven't "truly" forgiven their predators? Should the victims be willing to invite these predators into their homes, since, after all, the victims have forgiven and forgotten? What if the predators haven't asked for forgiveness? Do you forgive them anyway? And then forget? Even if they've shown no intention of changing? By the way, these aren't imaginary or over-the-top examples I'm giving. Is remembering such a violation holding it over the person's head? Or is forgiveness about having the willingness to give the person a chance to prove s/he's changed? Those aren't the same things. And wouldn't forgetting just cause you to repeatedly put yourself in harm's way?

In forgiving and forgetting..the forgetting is to not hold on to it. You have to be able to "forget" in a sense that you won't allow what happened to dictate your walk/life. Specifically relating to sexual/physical abuse...I personally was sexually abused by my uncle. I HAVE forgiven and FORGOTTEN in a sense that what he did doesn't dictate my life. I don't hold on to that and let it affect other relationships or how I love him (my uncle). that may sound crazy, but he is still family. I don't condone what he did or that it should be allowed to anyone else, but I know that I can't allow that to shadow other relationiships. I had to let it go (forget). Now, when I see him and me being in Christ I have an opportunity to witness. Unfortunately, he turned to drugs, crime, etc and is currently homeless and in a sense hopeless. Most of my family won't even stop and see if he is doing ok when they see him, but if I see him I will stop and ask if he is ok, if he needs shoes, or a coat or food. i pray with him, I have given him a bible, I have to use that as an opportunity to witness. I am not saying that it was an easy thing for me to deal with, but you have to take everything on an individual basis. Everyone should be held accountable, that is why we have to confess our sins. God wouldn't ask us to do anything that He couldn't help us do. We have to be willing to actually let God show us how to forgive and forget. Many times our flesh won't allow us to forget, but we have to pray and ask God to help us do it the way he said. Only God is truly righteous. We have all wronged someone in some way.

Should the victims be willing to invite these predators into their homes, since, after all, the victims have forgiven and forgotten? What if the predators haven't asked for forgiveness? Do you forgive them anyway? And then forget? Even if they've shown no intention of changing?

If these people don't show any intention of changing, I, I , I say no. We are able to protect/defend ourselves and feel safe. If they haven't asked for forgiveness, then that is up to you (the victim). Personally, I would. I may not ever have to / get the chance to tell them, but I would forgive them so that I could move on. I would forgive them so that I could heal. I would pray for them. We as Christians are still supposed to love/pray for our enemies.

and forgiveness isn't about the person "proving" change. I ask my husband to forgive me for the same stuff over and over again. In asking for forgiveness you are admitting that you are wrong or have wronged someone. You have to step outside of pride and ego, humble yourself and say sorry. And to grant forgiveness is to be gracious and merciful. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. We all have free will, but God says He will judge us and forgive us the same way we do those things to others.

this was kind of long, please let me know if i didn't respond to something.

 

[Nyambura]

In forgiving and forgetting..the forgetting is to not hold on to it. You have to be able to "forget" in a sense that you won't allow what happened to dictate your walk/life. Specifically relating to sexual/physical abuse...I personally was sexually abused by my uncle. I HAVE forgiven and FORGOTTEN in a sense that what he did doesn't dictate my life. I don't hold on to that and let it affect other relationships or how I love him (my uncle). that may sound crazy, but he is still family. I don't condone what he did or that it should be allowed to anyone else, but I know that I can't allow that to shadow other relationiships. I had to let it go (forget). Now, when I see him and me being in Christ I have an opportunity to witness. Unfortunately, he turned to drugs, crime, etc and is currently homeless and in a sense hopeless. Most of my family won't even stop and see if he is doing ok when they see him, but if I see him I will stop and ask if he is ok, if he needs shoes, or a coat or food. i pray with him, I have given him a bible, I have to use that as an opportunity to witness. I am not saying that it was an easy thing for me to deal with, but you have to take everything on an individual basis. Everyone should be held accountable, that is why we have to confess our sins. God wouldn't ask us to do anything that He couldn't help us do. We have to be willing to actually let God show us how to forgive and forget. Many times our flesh won't allow us to forget, but we have to pray and ask God to help us do it the way he said. Only God is truly righteous. We have all wronged someone in some way.

Should the victims be willing to invite these predators into their homes, since, after all, the victims have forgiven and forgotten? What if the predators haven't asked for forgiveness? Do you forgive them anyway? And then forget? Even if they've shown no intention of changing?

If these people don't show any intention of changing, I, I , I say no. We are able to protect/defend ourselves and feel safe. If they haven't asked for forgiveness, then that is up to you (the victim). Personally, I would. I may not ever have to / get the chance to tell them, but I would forgive them so that I could move on. I would forgive them so that I could heal. I would pray for them. We as Christians are still supposed to love/pray for our enemies.

and forgiveness isn't about the person "proving" change. I ask my husband to forgive me for the same stuff over and over again. In asking for forgiveness you are admitting that you are wrong or have wronged someone. You have to step outside of pride and ego, humble yourself and say sorry. And to grant forgiveness is to be gracious and merciful. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. We all have free will, but God says He will judge us and forgive us the same way we do those things to others.

this was kind of long, please let me know if i didn't respond to something.

Ok, I see now. Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I appreciate your detailed response, redeemed. And nope, I don't think you left anything out!

 

[Poohbear]

We were having this discussion at lunch today and I was wondering how you felt about this. When you repent do you believe that God forgives you instantly or do you think it is conditional. If so what are the conditions?

God forgives and forgets you instantly when you confess your sins and ask for forgiveness. (Thank the Lord!) The thing with repentance is that you must go and do that sin NO MORE!

 

[BlkHoneyLuv2U]

Real good thread, but I have a question. I did something wrong to somebody several years ago while I was not saved that no one but God and that person knows about. It was one of those you do me wrong I'm gonna git you back kinda thangs you know tit for tat. We were both wrong. I have forgiven this person for the wrong they did me & I have asked God to forgive me for the wrong I did the other person and have repented for the sin, do I need to go to that person who did ne wrong first and ask their forgiveness also. I currently have no contact with that person, havent seen for more than a few years but because I've moved back into the area they live in I may have occasion to run into them. Never mind, I think I know the answer, God has forgiven me but I havent forgiven myself. Ask forgiveness of that person. BUT I DONT WANNA!!

 

[AngelicRose07]

hmm, good thread

 

[sbg4evr]

Real good thread, but I have a question. I did something wrong to somebody several years ago while I was not saved that no one but God and that person knows about. It was one of those you do me wrong I'm gonna git you back kinda thangs you know tit for tat. We were both wrong. I have forgiven this person for the wrong they did me & I have asked God to forgive me for the wrong I did the other person and have repented for the sin, do I need to go to that person who did ne wrong first and ask their forgiveness also. I currently have no contact with that person, havent seen for more than a few years but because I've moved back into the area they live in I may have occasion to run into them. Never mind, I think I know the answer, God has forgiven me but I havent forgiven myself. Ask forgiveness of that person. BUT I DONT WANNA!!

If you feel unsure and it is heavy on your mind, you need to approach this person and apologize. The fact that you are doing it will provide you closure. I have read the one of the steps to recovery for Alcohol Anonymous is to apologize to all those you did wrong. (I believe this is good advice). It does not matter if they accept or not. It is to bring closure to you and your sense of mind. If you do not want face to face contact, write the person a letter. It is the effort that counts.

 

[Chrissy811]

If you feel unsure and it is heavy on your mind, you need to approach this person and apologize. The fact that you are doing it will provide you closure. I have read the one of the steps to recovery for Alcohol Anonymous is to apologize to all those you did wrong. (I believe this is good advice). It does not matter if they accept or not. It is to bring closure to you and your sense of mind. If you do not want face to face contact, write the person a letter. It is the effort that counts.

I agree!!!

 

[star]

I agree with Koffie, use wisdom with people and what ever you do, do it in love this what pleases God.

I think in a sense you have forgiven them, but have now decided to put up a protective shield from this person so that they will not be able to hurt you again, which is totally understandable.

 

[Honeyhips]

With forgiveness you have to forget. Be honest most of us really aren't forgiving when we say we won't forget what happens. Forgetting doesn't mean that you may not remember the action, but it means you won't hold that action against the person. It also doesn't mean you run back into the arms of the person who hurt you. You have to give yourself time to heal. Plus holding unforgiveness just keeps you in bondage. I have some scriptures I'll share later.