FALLACIES That Need To Be Repented From

[Poohbear]

What do you ladies think of these fallacies? A minister at my church gave this to me. My church used to be nondenominational and now it's Baptist ever since my dad became pastor. The minister has been teaching about this during Wednesday night Bible Study. I don't know if I can agree that all these things mentioned are fallacies.

First off, a fallacy is a false or mistaken idea. So everything listed, is NOT true (according to this minister from my church). Here's the list of fallacies...

1. God loves everybody.
2. All people are in the image of God.
3. Man is basically good and not basically bad.
4. Men are under common grace.
5. God desires all men to be saved means He wants to save every individual in the whole world.
6. God has two wills.
7. Jesus died for everybody.
8. God doesn't send people to hell-especially for His glory.
9. God cares more for men than He does His own glory.
10. All men have a spark of good in them.
11. Lost men are reprobates.
12. Repentance and faith are not necessary for true salvation.
13. Names can be added to the Lamb's book of life after the foundation of the world and not before.
14. Eternal life is open and available for all men individually all over the world.
15. Justification is a combination of our works and Christ's work and not Christ's work alone.
16. God chooses the elect to be the elect based on knowing that they did good things or could believe so He was impressed and picked them to be saved.
17. God does not hate reprobate men.
18. God is sovereign over salvation but not over everything.
19. God is not completely sovereign over the salvation of men's souls.
20. God had no control of the Fall of man and the activity of Satan in the Garden of Eden.
21. God covered His eyes and wondered what would happen and just hoped for the best.
22. The children of Satan can become the children of God.
23. The tares can become wheat and the wheat can become tares.
24. Predestination is reversible.
25. You can accept Jesus as Savior but not as Lord.
26. God doesn't create some men for the purpose of demonstrating His wrath of His glory.
27. Non-repentant heretics will go to heaven even though they never ever repent.
28. Salvation is more so based upon man's will to choose Christ than His choice on them.
29. Men and women's roles in the church and home are biblically reversible.
30. Women can and should be pastors and teachers of men in the church.
31. The meaning of a Bible text is made by the reader not the author of the text.
32. The majority of the human race will be saved and go to heaven only a small minority of really really bad people will go to hell.
33. You should never kick anyone out of the church for any reason whatsoever.

I find a problem with some of these things being considered fallacies (the ones I put in bold). I believe the ones that I didnt put in bold ARE fallacies.

What do you ladies think???

 

[Koffie]

Could your pastor give any proof from the Bible that the ones you have bolded are fallacies? If not and this causes you to question anything, then talk to God about it.

 

[Koffie]

If number 7 is a fallacy, then that means that John 3:16 is null and void.

But we as Christians know that His word shall not return to Him void,, Right???

 

[Enchantmt]

Humm...


God does love the world. Scripture says He loves us before we loved Him in that He sent His Son to die for us.

Man(kind) is made in the image of God, scripture says so. God didnt say some part of mankind state any seperation. Unless something has transpired since Eden, other than the fall to make us less man-like I don't see how this could be true.

Jesus died for everyone, scripture says so. Unless someone is outside the "world" which if you are in the on earth that cant be. Not everyone is going to receive salvation, we have free will can can refuse it. However we all supposedly get our chance for it

I dont know about 17. May be true I cant think of any scripture off the top of my head for or against. I know there are scriptures in reference to this but I cant recall the context at the moment.

I thought we were all the children of satan until we accepted Christ because we have a sin nature.

I would need more to go on to answer 23, did he give any context for that statement?

Well in the bible there are references to women as teachers of men. It was not widespread as women were not taught to read always and a lot of other cutural issues. In the story of Mary and Martha it was expected that the women wait on the men and the men sit at the feet of the teacher. Jesus said Mary had chosen the better part. The fact that he treated her as such addressed some of the cutural mistreatment or rather roles of women.There is an apostle mentioned in the new testament and a prophetess in the old testament looked to for guidance. (Deborah maybe?) I dont have the names right now, I'm at work and too lazy to do a search. If you really need to know I can look it up tho.

 

[Sweet C]

I believe these are truth, not fallacies

#1- God does indeed love the world (John 3:16), but guess what, God also hates sin. And the only thing that can separate us from God's love is sin.

#2- All people are in the image of God, b/c they were all made in the image of God (Gen 1:27, Gen 9:6)

#7- See #1 scripture

#17- God doesn't ever say he hates them, but b/c they turned their backs from God continuously he gave them over to the mindset that they loved (Rom 1:28)

#22- Children of Satan do his will, as Jesus talked to the Pharisees about this in John 8, but if they repented they could become children of God (Gal 3:26, 1 John 3:7-10)

#30-God never limited women from any aspect of the five fold ministry (Eph 4:11), including pastoring, and you see examples of women operating in ministry, but the catch is that it must be done within proper context. This is first mentioned in 1 Cor 14, where it clearly states let YOUR WOMEN keep silent in the church.....also saith the LAW. My husband is actually studying this now, and what he learned was that the women at that time who were coming into the church of Corinth had came out of worshipping the goddesses Diana and Sophia, who taught a very shady gospel that Eve was right for eating the fruit, b/c the serpent was just trying to give her wisdom, which was greater than the creator (So this is why Paul essentially told them to sit down and be quiet, b/c they didn't know what they were talking about). This is also in direct relation to a similiar saying in 1 Timothy, and the reason why Paul talks about the adornments, is b/c these women who wore these adornments and braided hair were widely known as temple prostitutes and priestsess, so the same sort of rule applies (i.e. u need to sit down). These women were use to having all of this authority by being priestess for Diana and Sophia, that when they became Christians, they took this same sort of spirit with them. And the bible teaches that the man is to be head of the women, not the women being head of the man (1 Cor 11:3). So the man should have the ultimate authority in the kingdom as the head of the household and church. But this does not limit women to not being pastor, it just means that in whatever role she operates in she needs to have a male covering and submit to it.

These I believe are fallacies (not truth)
#23- If you look at it from the purely literal sense and how most interpret the parable, tares can't become wheat and wheat can't become tares, b/c they are 2 different plants that look alike. (Matt 13:24-30) A "tare" is a plant that looks greatly like genuine wheat when it is growing. In fact, the only time a farmer can tell the difference from tare and wheat is at the very end of the harvest season; the wheat forms a nice, full head of seed that will be harvested shortly by the farmer. However, the tare forms a very little head of seed, and the seed itself is highly noxious. This is probably why this is on the list of fallacies.

 

[Poohbear]

I believe these are truth, not fallacies

#1- God does indeed love the world (John 3:16), but guess what, God also hates sin. And the only thing that can separate us from God's love is sin.

#2- All people are in the image of God, b/c they were all made in the image of God (Gen 1:27, Gen 9:6)

#7- See #1 scripture

#17- God doesn't ever say he hates them, but b/c they turned their backs from God continuously he gave them over to the mindset that they loved (Rom 1:28)

#22- Children of Satan do his will, as Jesus talked to the Pharisees about this in John 8, but if they repented they could become children of God (Gal 3:26, 1 John 3:7-10)

#30-God never limited women from any aspect of the five fold ministry (Eph 4:11), including pastoring, and you see examples of women operating in ministry, but the catch is that it must be done within proper context. This is first mentioned in 1 Cor 14, where it clearly states let YOUR WOMEN keep silent in the church.....also saith the LAW. My husband is actually studying this now, and what he learned was that the women at that time who were coming into the church of Corinth had came out of worshipping the goddesses Diana and Sophia, who taught a very shady gospel that Eve was right for eating the fruit, b/c the serpent was just trying to give her wisdom, which was greater than the creator (So this is why Paul essentially told them to sit down and be quiet, b/c they didn't know what they were talking about). This is also in direct relation to a similiar saying in 1 Timothy, and the reason why Paul talks about the adornments, is b/c these women who wore these adornments and braided hair were widely known as temple prostitutes and priestsess, so the same sort of rule applies (i.e. u need to sit down). These women were use to having all of this authority by being priestess for Diana and Sophia, that when they became Christians, they took this same sort of spirit with them. And the bible teaches that the man is to be head of the women, not the women being head of the man (1 Cor 11:3). So the man should have the ultimate authority in the kingdom as the head of the household and church. But this does not limit women to not being pastor, it just means that in whatever role she operates in she needs to have a male covering and submit to it.

You picked the same ones I did!

These I believe are fallacies (not truth)
#23- If you look at it from the purely literal sense and how most interpret the parable, tares can't become wheat and wheat can't become tares, b/c they are 2 different plants that look alike. (Matt 13:24-30) A "tare" is a plant that looks greatly like genuine wheat when it is growing. In fact, the only time a farmer can tell the difference from tare and wheat is at the very end of the harvest season; the wheat forms a nice, full head of seed that will be harvested shortly by the farmer. However, the tare forms a very little head of seed, and the seed itself is highly noxious. This is probably why this is on the list of fallacies.

Now I understand. I guess I better un-bold that one!

 

[BlkHoneyLuv2U]

Poohbear, what scripture references is this pastor giving for these statements?
I dont know about him but here are some scriptures on false teachers from the Message Bible. The Word also tell us to know them that labor among us.

1st Timothy 4:1-6
1Ti 4:1 The Spirit makes it clear that as time goes on, some are going to give up on the faith and chase after demonic illusions put forth by professional liars.
1Ti 4:2 These liars have lied so well and for so long that they've lost their capacity for truth.
1Ti 4:3 They will tell you not to get married. They'll tell you not to eat this or that food--perfectly good food God created to be eaten heartily and with thanksgiving by Christians!
1Ti 4:4 Everything God created is good, and to be received with thanks. Nothing is to be sneered at and thrown out.
1Ti 4:5 God's Word and our prayers make every item in creation holy.

1st Timothy 6:1-5

1Ti 6:1 Whoever is a slave must make the best of it, giving respect to his master so that outsiders don't blame God and our teaching for his behavior.
1Ti 6:2 Slaves with Christian masters all the more so--their masters are really their beloved brothers! These are the things I want you to teach and preach.
1Ti 6:3 If you have leaders there who teach otherwise, who refuse the solid words of our Master Jesus and this godly instruction,
1Ti 6:4 tag them for what they are: ignorant windbags who infect the air with germs of envy, controversy, bad-mouthing, suspicious rumors.
1Ti 6:5 Eventually there's an epidemic of backstabbing, and truth is but a distant memory. They think religion is a way to make a fast buck.

Titus 1:11-11

it 1:1 I, Paul, am God's slave and Christ's agent for promoting the faith among God's chosen people, getting out the accurate word on God and how to respond rightly to it.
Tit 1:2 My aim is to raise hopes by pointing the way to life without end. This is the life God promised long ago--and he doesn't break promises!
Tit 1:3 And then when the time was ripe, he went public with his truth. I've been entrusted to proclaim this Message by order of our Savior, God himself.
Tit 1:4 Dear Titus, legitimate son in the faith: Receive everything God our Father and Jesus our Savior give you!
Tit 1:5 I left you in charge in Crete so you could complete what I left half-done. Appoint leaders in every town according to my instructions.
Tit 1:6 As you select them, ask, "Is this man well-thought-of? Are his children believers? Do they respect him and stay out of trouble?"
Tit 1:7 It's important that a church leader, responsible for the affairs in God's house, be looked up to--not pushy, not short-tempered, not a drunk, not a bully, not money-hungry.
Tit 1:8 He must welcome people, be helpful, wise, fair, reverent, have a good grip on himself,
Tit 1:9 and have a good grip on the Message, knowing how to use the truth to either spur people on in knowledge or stop them in their tracks if they oppose it.
Tit 1:10 For there are a lot of rebels out there, full of loose, confusing, and deceiving talk. Those who were brought up religious and ought to know better are the worst.
Tit 1:11 They've got to be shut up. They're disrupting entire families with their teaching, and all for the sake of a fast buck.

 

[dreamgurl]

Poohbear...

Does your father, who is the pastor of the Church have any knowledge that this particular minister is teaching these things to the flock?

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear...

Does your father, who is the pastor of the Church have any knowledge that this particular minister is teaching these things to the flock?

He loves this minister! I've tried telling my father before to watch out for this guy! Just because they go to the same seminary and he's a so-called dedicated Christian doesn't mean he teaches strictly biblical. He always let's people know how he's a 32 year old virgin. One time, when they went out evangelizing, he got on my dad for not making my mom go with him. I know you're suppose to evangelize but not be forced to do it! He can say some off the wall things in my opinion.

 

[Poohbear]

Could your pastor give any proof from the Bible that the ones you have bolded are fallacies? If not and this causes you to question anything, then talk to God about it.

It's not the pastor, it's a minister at the church. this minister isn't even liscensed nor ordained.
He gave a list of scriptures to look at but he didn't match them up beside the fallacies he listed. Not very organized. I think some of those fallacies in the list are just his thoughts!

 

[aquarian1252004]

I didn't know you were a "PK' Pooh bear. All I have to says is : WHAT BIBLE IS HE READING?

 

[Koffie]

It's not the pastor, it's a minister at the church. this minister isn't even liscensed nor ordained.
He gave a list of scriptures to look at but he didn't match them up beside the fallacies he listed. Not very organized. I think some of those fallacies in the list are just his thoughts!

Well, the minister's teachings contradict what I have been tought about the Bible.

 

[Poohbear]

Well, the minister's teachings contradict what I have been tought about the Bible.

Yep, me too, because I know God loves everyone and that Jesus died for everyone! I'm a Sunday School teacher and that one statement he has a fallacy is like a slap in the face.

 

[dreamgurl]

I see you're exercising your gift of descernment Poohbear. I pray the Holy Spirit will instruct you on how to pray for this minister and your father as well as the congregation so that the truth will be told and the blinders will be lifted. This is the time where saints really need to pray for discernment because we have some falsies among us indeed.

 

[Poohbear]

Hey ladies!!!!!

I asked my dad what scriptures is this minister using to back up all these claims.

The fallacies make sense, they're just hard to grasp.

Here's the scripture that explains why God doesn't love everyone and some of the other fallacies that talk about predestination: Romans 9:11-16...

11- for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12- it was said to her "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER."
13- Just as it is written, "JACOD I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
14- What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
15- For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
16- So then it does not depend on man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

 

[Koffie]

Sorry Pooh, I still don't see the support....I guess you can take anything out of the Bible and out of context and make it support what you want it to...many crazy folks have done that through the ages with cults and such. I think that's why it's important to read for yourself and to be discerning.

ITA w/ this

girl, everything that I quoted of your's was my initial feeling when I read the "explanation".


Pooh, do you mind elaborating?

 

[Poohbear]

Pooh, do you mind elaborating?

I can't. I don't know much about this scripture to elaborate. I mentioned how it was hard to grasp. To me it's saying God is sovereign and works for our good in everything and He will save all who believe in Him. God's mercy does not depend on our desire or effort, but on His compassion and decision to give it to us.

I just need to study this more.

And! I would like more scriptures to back up this minister's claims!!!

 

[Poohbear]

Sorry Pooh, I still don't see the support....I guess you can take anything out of the Bible and out of context and make it support what you want it to...many crazy folks have done that through the ages with cults and such. I think that's why it's important to read for yourself and to be discerning.

This is so true!

 

[BlkHoneyLuv2U]

I know that God is all seeing and all knowing. He knew that Esau would sell his birthright even befor he was born, so it seems to me that God knew that Esau couldnt be trusted to give place(I cant think of the word I want to really use here) to the things that should be held in high regard like his birth right as the eldest son.If he was so easily swayed to give that away for a plate of food, what about his faith and his leadership ability for the children of Isreal.