Discussion: Are The Heathen Lost
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kanozas
se ven las caras pero nunca el corazón
No, they are not condemned just for not knowing nor believing in Him if they have never known Him. This affirmation from the catechism, based upon scripture and apostolic tradition, is one reason I entered the Church although, through much trouble, I have remained. Without it, I would not need the Church and no other church would have sufficed either. I'm catholic, so that's what I'm referring to:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? [Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21: PL 3, 1169; De unit.: PL 4, 509-536] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: [161, 1257]
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.[LG 14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5]
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. [LG 16; cf. DS 3866-3872]
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men." [AG 7; cf. Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 9:16] [1260]
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? [Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21: PL 3, 1169; De unit.: PL 4, 509-536] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: [161, 1257]
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.[LG 14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5]
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. [LG 16; cf. DS 3866-3872]
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men." [AG 7; cf. Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 9:16] [1260]
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Galadriel
Well-Known Member
I believe it's possible for a person who's never heard the Gospel to be saved by Christ. I believe that God is constantly drawing human beings toward Him, and if a person has never heard the Gospel, but responds to God's grace in their lives, it is possible to be saved, but this is only through Christ and His grace.
Now, the following is a personal theological opinion of mine, but I think that such a person would go through Purgatory first so that their mind could be opened to the message of the Gospel and they could understand the fullness of the message they had never gotten while alive, before passing into Heaven. It would be like how Christ after His crucifixion (but before His Resurrection) went to preach the Gospel to the Old Testament saints.
However, I think a person who never heard the Gospel, but never responded to any kind of grace, and lived a wicked life (despite the natural, rational knowledge between good and evil God instilled in us as human beings), that person would not be saved.
I also believe babies who die in the womb, infants, children under the age of reason, and the severely retarded are also covered by Christ's grace in such a situation.
blazingthru
Well-Known Member
Roman 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
God has placed the knowledge of him in our hearts, but he gives us free choice to walk with him or not, and that walk is based on the knowledge that he has given you. In that case, their very life and lifestyle indicates a knowledge of God.
This is why we are to share our faith with others. its also extremely important that we raise our children to be obedient to God to read the bible and pray because they will not be spared. The children in conquering nations were not saved. Children have some knowledge of Good and Bad, Right or Wrong. They will be judged as adults, now I was stunned when I first read it but its true, as you go through those conquering nations you never hear of them being saved. there was one instance in where they saved some and the woman because that particular tribe of Israel was almost no more and they need more people to secure the tribe, I hope that makes sense.
Jesus really covered everything. There is no excuse for anyone to say they do not know the lord. Especially in this generation, but I know Christians don't know the Lord either, so that passage above would apply to them as well.
God has placed the knowledge of him in our hearts, but he gives us free choice to walk with him or not, and that walk is based on the knowledge that he has given you. In that case, their very life and lifestyle indicates a knowledge of God.
This is why we are to share our faith with others. its also extremely important that we raise our children to be obedient to God to read the bible and pray because they will not be spared. The children in conquering nations were not saved. Children have some knowledge of Good and Bad, Right or Wrong. They will be judged as adults, now I was stunned when I first read it but its true, as you go through those conquering nations you never hear of them being saved. there was one instance in where they saved some and the woman because that particular tribe of Israel was almost no more and they need more people to secure the tribe, I hope that makes sense.
Jesus really covered everything. There is no excuse for anyone to say they do not know the lord. Especially in this generation, but I know Christians don't know the Lord either, so that passage above would apply to them as well.
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