Conditioners: Causing More Harm Than Good On Hair?

Guitarhero

Guitarhero

New Member
I'm talking about dependence on them? You know, the emulsions, creamy wet conditioning products. We all know there must be a balance between moisture and protein strength in the hair but I'm concerned that many of us might be overconditioning...including myself. I'm looking for information on whether creamy conditioners are actually a crutch that keep our hair in it's weakest condition possible, thereby promoting a product line. Could oil and water provide that balance straight from cleansing, omitting the conditioning step? Considering that sodium lauryl sulfate shampoos needed conditioners to make the hair manageable, it was because of the de-proteinizing effects on the hair cuticle. You needed a protein-enriched conditioner to temporarily replace some of those proteins.

I can remember a time when I used no sulfates in my hair and only oil (Dabur) in my hair. Well, even with sulfate shampoo and Dabur in the hair, my elasticity level was incredible after about 2-3 weeks off the poo-con crack. I don't remember why I had no conditioner in the house...guess busy. But I just used the oil after shampooing and occasionally when dry. And one day, I just noticed the difference in my hair. Tensile strength was incredible. Then, unfortunately, I got wind of some new products and began the vicious cycle of conditioners again. And because of the conditioners, well, I needed something stronger to actually cleanse the hair from the waxes contained within them. Did I mention, vicious cycle? I'll always remember the words of a Cypriot friend, "don't use conditioners, they hook you in, you don't need them." I thought, "girl, you don't even know how this hair needs conditioners." Actually, my hair needed moisture...h20. I was flat-ironing like crazy and having to trim often because it was dry and ugly.

What am I finding? I'm having to use these conditioners all the time to trick my hair into feeling good. My latest kick is LeKair Cholesterol. I'll start an experiment on myself, using ayurvedic soap bars, teas or just warm water on my hair and try the oil method again and see if I can't get that elasticity back without having to resort to protein vs. moisture for balance. If it doesn't work out, then I'll continue on with the LeKair but only use as directed. No plastic caps, heat, 1-2 hours on the head...except after henna...what, am I crazy? But I truly want to break this cycle. I might even try the Sudanese henna method, letting henna paste dry, then applying the Dabur to the hair, loosening it, eventually brushing the henna powder from the hair.


Thanks to all for commenting on my blog. I've decided to make this a thread from your recommendation.
 
I recently tried using coconut oil as a leave in.

Yeah. My hair needs conditioner. My hair was so hard I could have poked someone's eye out with it :lachen:

Some people's hair doesn't need conditioner. Everyone's hair is different.
 
I sincerely hope that those who responded on the blog will repost their responses in this thread for balance lol.

Don't go poking eyes out!
 
I tried this path because my motto is less is more and this is what happened (but to be honest I think it may really vary from person to person). It didn't work with coconut oil. Olive oil was better, much more moisturizing. Olive oil on dry hair, at some point, dried my hair out: I needed water as well. It was difficult to find the right way to alternate between the right amount of water and oil and I eventually got tired of it. It was healthy at the end of the week, but often humid and oily and I wasn't able to master the technique... I tend to overdo with everything, maybe the secret was less water and less oil? I'm curious about this: at the end of the day, conditioners are oil + water emulsified together. I wonder if emulsifiers make a difference in the penetration of ingredients, though.
 
Its interesting that you write this, because in the past few days I've been thinking the same thing. I never used to co-wash, but I've been experimenting with it recently and it seems to make my hair appear weaker. Case in point, the first time I had individual braids put in my hair, I left them in for a month and didn't do anything to them at all (this was well before LHCF or my HHJ; I was a no-pooer then and used shampoo once a month). I was shocked at the growth and thickness afterwards, but braided my hair sparingly nonetheless. I tried it again this summer but added more washing and moisture and seemed like the more I co-washed the more I saw tiny little broken hairs from my ends, even in braids. I think my hair is already too porous and fine as it is for all the "moisture, moisture, moisture!"

ETA: These were box braids with only my own hair.

I also think its possible that keeping my hair wet too much and too long weakens it. Seriously that's when I see the most breakage. Baggying doesn't help my hair too much, and I realized about a week ago that it actually causes more breakage for me (I saw the most breakage I saw in a long time after baggying, as if my hair strands were just melting off).

Last time I DC'ed, I mixed it (Lekair--which I love!) with my Aphogee 2-min and only left it on for 30 minutes together. My hair came out less soft feeling than it used to, but it was definitely much stronger that way and it wasn't dry and tangly or anything. I'm with you, I'm not sure I need conditioner much at all. Oil has always worked well for my hair, I've never used creamy products outside of my DC's. But I think that this depends on your hair type: fine, medium or coarse strands and high or low porosity.

Btw, LeKair has collagen so its somewhat of a light protein conditioner.
 
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I got this information from a stylist's video who said something about the cuticle being drawn very tight that would cause reverse damage over time. I know that the cuticle being closed in healthy hair differs from damaged strands but well...just trying to get back that elasticity. Maybe it's having goop setting on your hair as opposed to having the nutrients penetrate the cuticle? People who have complained of "mushy" hair might have gotten that goop overload. If and when I find that video, I'll post it.
 
I've thought about "over-conditioning." It's why I stopped co-washing and I see the hair as very absorptive so I don't use that much conditioner even when deep conditioning. I used to NOT use conditioner or protein on my hair and it broke, was dry, etc. Then I tried only using oils and it just didn't feel right. It always felt heavy. I may not speak for all, but I do need to condition my hair. Just not too often.
 
Good points. I have a boatload of conditioners that I alternate with rinses (baking soda, ACV, honey, coffee, coconut oil, aloe vera juice). The conditioners are less expensive and the natural products give great results. I will use both and record results to plan future product purchases and hair regimen.

I am still learning what works for me. I know that a baking soda or aloe vera rinse will remove product buildup, chlorine, etc. If I add a tablespoon of honey to my ACV rinse I can use less leave-in conditioner, moisturizer or AVG and seal with oil. After the first appplication of leave-in, I only need to smooth distilled water from root to end to moisturize hair on day 2. Aloe vera gel (AVG) is an excellent leave-in. I apply all products from roots to ends in sections with my fingers. Oil is applied to ends of a section or individual twists or braids. Conditoners are great to wash out excess oil, yogurt, protein treatments, sand from beach.
 
Hmmm. Interesting thread. I've been experimenting with my DC routine this month. Instead of using shampoo I use my co-washing conditioner to wash my hair before DC. I don't know if I can let go of the conditioners right now though. I like the way they make my hair feel. I've never had any issues of over moisturizing.
 
My hair needs conditioner. My hair told me long ago, little to no oils. I definitely could not shampoo and oil only.
 
I think there's something to it. I did pre-shampoo with virgin coconut oil tonight just on a whim - it wasn't planned - and after shampoo my hair was perfectly soft. I did go ahead and use conditioner anyway but it did not add anything to the softness. The oil induced softness was surprising to me, but I might add I'm in the early stages of brittanynic's heat training regimen - and it seems to be working. Many Indian women don't use commercial conditioners either so I think it's doable. I like this idea coz if it works, it reduces my bill for products substantially coz my conditioners are pricey.

Subscribing for later developments.
 
I've actually been thinking about using up my Queen Helene cholesterol conditioner and then switching to coconut milk mixed with mayo, olive oil and honey from now on. I love QH but I'm finding that coconut milk mixed with honey and olive oil works just as good. If I add mayo to the mix it then I'll have a homemade cholesterol conditioner ready to go.
 
I am a baking soda rinse and oil only girl.

My hair feels so much better now than when i was actually using conditioners. Sometimes i'll use a leave in moisturizer but that is maybe once a week.
 
Over the past several weeks, I’ve been contemplating this very issue, particularly as it relates to the effects of water on the hair’s porosity and overall health (I am always mindful of ways in which I can effectively address my porosity issues as I build and execute my hair regimen).

Admittedly, I am addicted to creamy conditioners and co-washing, but I am beginning to think that the continuous use of conditioners through frequent deep conditioning and co-washing may be producing unfavorable outcomes rather than promoting healthier ones. Could it be possible that, by being regularly submerged in water under the guise of practicing healthy hair rituals, I am actually producing the opposite effect?

Since my hair is highly porous, it can absorb a great deal of water. We all know that frequent conditioning, whether it is deep conditioning or co-washing, will ultimately require the use of water. So, given the hair’s nature of expanding while wet and contracting while drying, wouldn’t a continuous cycle of hair follicle expansion and contraction adversely affect not only the hair’s porosity, but also result in a weakening of the follicles over the long term? Wouldn’t this be especially true for those with overly porous hair since it naturally attracts a higher level of moisture?

I have no concrete answers to my questions seeing as I am still working it all out in my mind. It does, however, make me wonder - am I helping or hurting with all the co-washing and conditioning?
 
I beleive co-washing didn't help my hair. plus it didn't clean the build up from shea butter leave ins and my growth aides. So I stopped co-washing. Plus I have tried all types of conditioners for breakage and I have come to the coclusion that I have too many split ends causing breakage. No conditioner has helped with that. Aphogee does work pretty well for doing protein treatments.

Oil only doesn't work for my hair. I believe for some people with healthy hair they can do oil only. Also I think a shampoo must follow up with a conditioner. My hair is always hard and matted,tangled when it dries if I only shampoo with out conditioning.
Hair needs moisture and I believe conditioners give moisture with added nutrients that water alone can't give.
Also my hair grew the longest in protective styles So conditioners didn't really help with that. But did help with tangles .
 
Partial Update:

I've been using my Dabur Amla Gold and have just made a huge 75 oz. batch of homemade ayurvedic hair oil with no petrolatums in it. This is what I wish to do, incorporate ayurveda hair oiling with 1-2 x weekly shampoo/wash using the Biracialhair.org TightlyCurly.com technique with leave-in conditioner and comb-through with the Denman to set waves/curls. I plan on transitioning. I rarely apply any heat to my hair for bone-straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUuLQXzSgqM&playnext=1&videos=Ldr6T6SCCsM

This is where I'm having the problem:

Since I heavily damaged my hair, I am using the Rezz-a-rect Reconstructor (and it's honestly very good if used as directed) to restore elasticity, even curl back to my hair, just for a few months and then cease altogether. It doesn't set on top of the hairshaft but goes deeply inside and doesn't wash out. It's a true reconstructor. Not worried about conditioner damage and eventual disintegration of the hair shaft with that one. What I'm concerned about is tangly hair and too much regular conditioner causing mushiness. Bingo! Over-conditioning (not talking about deep reconstructurizing treatments)

My conditioner of choice for the TightlyCurly.com technique is the Herbal Essences (ok, so I bought two huge tubs of LeKair Cholesterol and 1 small LeKair Shea...using it in big globs and washing it out...dummy, it's a leave-in..sigh). I'll tweak the cholesterol with water to use as a comb-through leave-in. But....I wish to rinse the hair weekly with nettles/apple cider vinegar tea. Still haven't figured out how to incorporate it yet...perhaps after shampooing but before applying once weekly Herbal Essences or Aussie Moist (whatever Terri recommends on the site). I will be washing alternatively with Vatika Lemon Shampoo, Ayur Reetha Shampoo and Goorej Shikakai Bar. Eventually, I'll do away with the Vatika Poo cuz it's got sulfates...but I think it's a very good shampoo for right now and I need to use it up.

So, I figured out that, unless I'm using henna, conditioner washes are a NO GO for me. They cause scalp damage via fungal overgrowth, in my case and make my hair weaker. Some conditioner leave-in is ok but I cannot overdo it. Terri's technique sure uses a lot of conditioner but it's not every day, so practically no build-up. I wish to control and set the hair for little manipulation during the week with her technique. I'm aiming for hip length by this time next year. Ayurveda via hair oiling will be co-applied and kept in the hair daily (slightly) then heavily for an overnight once weekly treatment the day of the hairwash.

Already, with using the oil more and stopping conditioner washing or just plain 2-3 day shampoo/conditioner then rinse out, my hair is better. I've also cut down on sodium lauryl and laureth sulfates which make you have to use conditioner, esp. when your hair is stringy and long. What I'm relearning is that longer hair requires more untangling...duh... I must have ripped out 1/2 of my bulk with bad technique. Ayurveda, low-manipulation, curly-hair technique will help me get my hair evened up and thicken it up. Too much conditioner and on a daily or near basis simply was killing my hair. You can avoid the mush without having to counter deep condition with a heavy protein - avoid overconditioning with the cream in the first place. Terri's technique is great if done once weekly and combined with the hair oiling.

Sorry, this is a long post and I'm basically beginning to ramble but I'm trying to remember all these points here late at night. But because I choose to continue to incorporate the ayurveda, oils and the powder paste masks, henna etc., I'm having to use some conditioner on my hair to counteract the overdrying effect. Incidentally, Indian women with curly locs also complain of dry hair with amla, henna and other powders. It's the over-application of the cream that caused my horrid problem.
 
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For me personally I only use conditioner now to deep condition and I rarely cowash. I cannot use it as a moisturizer and cowashing my hair everyday gave me really bad single strand knots.
 
My mother is 4b, fine strands, high density. She has been natural almost 25 years. All she ever uses for the most part is natural soaps and oils. Her hair is hard as a brillo pad. :look: It does not bother her tho for the most part, she is one of those die hard naturals, she says this is the way her hair is naturally so just let it be (she has never ever straightened and rarely ever uses a blow dryer). I've never seen her with long loose hair tho, the one time her hair was long was with dreads. She will get some length and cut it off or dread bc she says detangling and styling gets too time consuming.

I have pretty much her same hair type and I'm currently transitioning. I use a ALOT of conditioner when I wash, I like my hair to feel soft to the touch and also conditioners help to detangle. I couldn't imagine giving up my conditioners.
 
2nd Update:


My hair had gotten mushy and I was bunning wet which made it worse than ever. I've experienced much breakage and long strands!!! I've got a boatload of conditioners that I will not be using. I should probably put them in the exchange thread because the only conditioner that I think I'm sticking with and I'm using it only as recommended (2 min, repeat then rinse thoroughly) is LeKair Cholesterol since it's got the keratin protein in it.

Then I rediscovered Infusium as a detangler. Things are going better now. And, of course, I'm using my Dabur oil and even put a little Posner Bergamot in my hair. Truly, overconditioning and the use of sulphate shampoos have wrecked my hair. What will I do with the gallon of Silicon Mix shampoo??? Dunno, maybe will use that to clarify once in awhile. I can't give that away at all. But I developed the mushies without realizing I had them. My hair didn't feel "mushy," but tangly. Protein and oil for me and the occasional Cholesterol with protein. No leaving in conditioner at all. Terri's regimen with conditioner only will not work for me. I'm in the process of "drying" out my hair from all that mushiness.
 
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I use conditioner after each wash - weekly - and only DC when I feel like my hair needs it. Leaving conditioner in my hair for over an hour is a no-no :look: Last winter I did co-wash about 3 times a week but it worked for me since I was in an overly dry atmosphere. In short, I use conditioner when I need to. I don't overuse them or feel "dependent" on them. I remember when I didn't use conditioners regularly and my hair was not as healthy, manageable, or soft.

Do what's best for YOUR hair, OP. :yep:
 
Last Update for awhile

I've scrapped the shampoo and am using water-only washing method. Of course, when I texturize, I use the stuff in the kit, but for daily? No washing, every 3-4 days, water-washing only. I have readded conditioners but ONLY Silk Elements Moisturizing Conditioner in the following recipe:

2 parts shea butter
2 parts moisturizing conditioner
1 part extra virgin coconut oil


I apply a small amount after washings. The reason I use the conditioner is to keep that moisture balance without getting that tacky greasy feel normal with shea butter. I'm not slathering loads of conditioner at all. Since I returned to BKT, my hair is thriving and I hope this endures for a long time!!! So basically, no over pooing and no over conditioning. However, with oils? I use as much as I feel like for overnight saturation then washing out in the morning on days I will wash. Scritch the scalp before applying oils then massage in well.

My problem was both conditioner and shampoo. And since so many conditioners contain sulphates as do shampoos, it's probably the sulphates causing the problem. They make my hair dull and overly mushy.
 
Volver_Alma_Gitana said:
I'm talking about dependence on them? You know, the emulsions, creamy wet conditioning products. We all know there must be a balance between moisture and protein strength in the hair but I'm concerned that many of us might be overconditioning...including myself. I'm looking for information on whether creamy conditioners are actually a crutch that keep our hair in it's weakest condition possible, thereby promoting a product line. Could oil and water provide that balance straight from cleansing, omitting the conditioning step? Considering that sodium lauryl sulfate shampoos needed conditioners to make the hair manageable, it was because of the de-proteinizing effects on the hair cuticle. You needed a protein-enriched conditioner to temporarily replace some of those proteins.

I can remember a time when I used no sulfates in my hair and only oil (Dabur) in my hair. Well, even with sulfate shampoo and Dabur in the hair, my elasticity level was incredible after about 2-3 weeks off the poo-con crack. I don't remember why I had no conditioner in the house...guess busy. But I just used the oil after shampooing and occasionally when dry. And one day, I just noticed the difference in my hair. Tensile strength was incredible. Then, unfortunately, I got wind of some new products and began the vicious cycle of conditioners again. And because of the conditioners, well, I needed something stronger to actually cleanse the hair from the waxes contained within them. Did I mention, vicious cycle? I'll always remember the words of a Cypriot friend, "don't use conditioners, they hook you in, you don't need them." I thought, "girl, you don't even know how this hair needs conditioners." Actually, my hair needed moisture...h20. I was flat-ironing like crazy and having to trim often because it was dry and ugly.

What am I finding? I'm having to use these conditioners all the time to trick my hair into feeling good. My latest kick is LeKair Cholesterol. I'll start an experiment on myself, using ayurvedic soap bars, teas or just warm water on my hair and try the oil method again and see if I can't get that elasticity back without having to resort to protein vs. moisture for balance. If it doesn't work out, then I'll continue on with the LeKair but only use as directed. No plastic caps, heat, 1-2 hours on the head...except after henna...what, am I crazy? But I truly want to break this cycle. I might even try the Sudanese henna method, letting henna paste dry, then applying the Dabur to the hair, loosening it, eventually brushing the henna powder from the hair.


Thanks to all for commenting on my blog. I've decided to make this a thread from your recommendation.
Click to expand...
This is quite interesting.
I know that I couldn't live without conditioners simply because they help tremendously with detangling.
If I washed my hair with an herbal paste that my family used to use in Africa, oils would suffice.

COnsidering the styles I wear and the products I have access to, I can't leave without conditioners.

I hope the changes you made in your regimen will work well for your hair.
 
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