Can we please have a moratorium on Natural/Relaxed threads?

[jamaraa]

If it's 'naturals VS relaxed' it's like both groups are automatically pitted against each other. No good can come from this, I say. I think the convo about the pros and cons ar great, but not women vs other women based on hair choices. That is the old divide and conquer routine and BW need no more of that...we already have too much.

 

[jennboo]

Not so much here, but you should see YouTube and other Black oriented sites like Black Voices. It's awful.

I wasn't saying YOU verbally assualted Jenn, but that it happens. Your comment was quite mild compared to what's out there to be had. I didn't think you were going after her for her hair, but her post. However elsewhere people do after naturals over their hair...harshly.

I understand you were upset by what she wrote...I didn't like it myself.

Umm...technically, she did, lol.

 

[Raine054]

Hi,

I welcome disagreement. It is through disagreements that discussions/debate ensues and, maybe, novel ideas form or enlightenment happens.

I am actually glad that you said what you said. W/out my even having to exert much effort on your post, you've actually lost credibility. It also showed that my views really upset you enough to resort to that sort of thing, which is telling. **shrugs**.

I'm Jay-Z : "I give'em enough rope, they put themselves in the air, i just kick away the chair"

"That sort of thing". And I suppose the lyrics point to the methods of someone far more superior. *sighs*

I'm glad you understood my comment was about the post and not the hair Jamaraa.

 

[jamaraa]

Well...things just got a little heated. Nobody like name calling and nobody likes to feel as if their Black card is being snatched. We should all respect each others choices, I say. There are plenty of folks in this world who don't respect any of our choices as BW.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

At the same time, relaxed ladies DO say offensive things about naturals/natural hair. What if I was to roll up in a relaxed person's thread and say, relaxed hair looks like limp, overcooked spaghetti? (for example) That's just uncalled for.

Naturals ARE hassled in real life and on boards far more than relaxed folks. People feel they have a right to verbally assualt naturals all the time.

Since this bad boy is gonna be gone by morning anyway.......

One person calling her boyfriends hair taco meat or a couple of somebody's saying Zahara needs her hair combed (and I stan for Z) does not constitute an all out assault on naturals.

Naturals get support here all the time from transition to long term and it's not just the type 3's either and that support is not just limited to other naturals on the board. If that really wasn't the case alot of folks including myself would have bounced up out of here long ago.

 

[msa]

Are the naturals being called names here? Are the relaxed heads being called names as well? I'm not sure what you're getting at msa. No one should be called names at all. I adjusted my statement to call her comments idiotic. It is idiotic and that's how I feel. Every response I read insinuates that my opinion is somehow affected by her hair choice. That is silly and presumptuous.

I still think her statement is idiotic. I don't agree with what Jamaraa said but I liked her previous post.

Everyone is walking into this thread with their armor on and their stance chosen and cemented so no one is given a chance to make a comment without being placed on a side (relaxed or natural).

My only issue was that you called her idiotic instead of referring to her comments as such. I know, and knew when you said it, it had nothing to do with her hair. My comment about naturals being defensive was a general comment that had to do with the constant insults, name calling, and hostility that's directed toward naturals on the board.

Frankly, I really don't care about people choosing a side. You relax? Great, have fun with that. You stayed natural? Awesome, amazing, love it! Let me know if I can help you. Wanna debate natural v. relaxed? Sure thing, I have opinions on both. But all this extra anger, hostility, and name calling? Miss me with that.

 

[Raine054]

Umm...technically, she did, lol.

I technically verbally assaulted you?


Good night ladies. Happy hair health and growth to all. I'm off to moisturize and seal!

 

[Raine054]

My only issue was that you called her idiotic instead of referring to her comments as such. I know, and knew when you said it, it had nothing to do with her hair. My comment about naturals being defensive was a general comment that had to do with the constant insults, name calling, and hostility that's directed toward naturals on the board.

Frankly, I really don't care about people choosing a side. You relax? Great, have fun with that. You stayed natural? Awesome, amazing, love it! Let me know if I can help you. Wanna debate natural v. relaxed? Sure thing, I have opinions on both. But all this extra anger, hostility, and name calling? Miss me with that.

Point taken msa. I stand by my thoughts and ideas and you to yours. Good night lady.

 

[shunemite]

I love what Dr. Akbari said, we should all "have a choice to be natural or relaxed. That's what's important". Women, we blame each other for too many things... for affairs, for baby mama drama, and now this. We should agree to disagree and respect each other. I want the day to come when I'm in an interview office and I have relaxed hair and the other girl has an afro, and one of us gets the job solely for our achievements and not the hair-do. That's my Utopian world.

 

[Neith]

Well...things just got a little heated. Nobody like name calling and nobody likes to feel as if their Black card is being snatched. We should all respect each others choices, I say. There are plenty of folks in this world who don't respect any of our choices as BW.

Exactly! *high five*

And we can't get along because of... our hair?! Sheesh! That is a shame.

 

[jennboo]

I technically verbally assaulted you?


Good night ladies. Happy hair health and growth to all. I'm off to moisturize and seal!

Yes, you did. You called me an idiot. That is a verbal assault .

Get that breakage under control!

 

[jamaraa]

Since this bad boy is gonna be gone by morning anyway.......

One person calling her boyfriends hair taco meat or a couple of somebody's saying Zahara needs her hair combed (and I stan for Z) does not constitute an all out assault on naturals.

Naturals get support here all the time from transition to long term and it's not just the type 3's either and that support is not just limited to other naturals on the board. If that really wasn't the case alot of folks including myself would have bounced up out of here long ago.

It probably won't get locked. We're being civilized about it really.

Woah...taco meat? That's whack. No those examples aren't what I meant tho. Check out some of the threads about guys on YouTube doing "nobody wants a nappy" and such as that? Rarely do you see the reverse.

On here, as I said, it's not that bad...it's on general Black sites and YouTube where it really happens online.

 

[Theresamonet]

Are the naturals being called names here? Are the relaxed heads being called names as well? I'm not sure what you're getting at msa. No one should be called names at all. I adjusted my statement to call her comments idiotic. It is idiotic and that's how I feel. Every response I read insinuates that my opinion is somehow affected by her hair choice. That is silly and presumptuous.

I still think her statement is idiotic. I don't agree with what Jamaraa said but I liked her previous post.

Everyone is walking into this thread with their armor on and their stance chosen and cemented so no one is given a chance to make a comment without being placed on a side (relaxed or natural).

But YOU are the only one going extra hard calling people idiots and ish. It was a pretty civilized convo until YOU showed up.

 

[Raine054]

Yes, you did. You called me an idiot. That is a verbal assault .

Get that breakage under control!

I didn't threaten bodily or physical harm. I did not verbally assault you.

 

[Raine054]

But YOU are the only one going extra hard calling people idiots and ish. It was a pretty civilized convo until YOU showed up.

Wow, you typed 'YOU' in all caps and everything. I'm guessing you didn't read the entire thread. In any case. Each to his own!

 

[Neith]

Since this bad boy is gonna be gone by morning anyway.......

One person calling her boyfriends hair taco meat or a couple of somebody's saying Zahara needs her hair combed (and I stan for Z) does not constitute an all out assault on naturals.

Naturals get support here all the time from transition to long term and it's not just the type 3's either and that support is not just limited to other naturals on the board. If that really wasn't the case alot of folks including myself would have bounced up out of here long ago.

There are also only a couple of people who say unpleasant things about relaxed hair. It's not like there is some board-wide hair brawl going on here

I think EVERYONE gets support here. By no means am I saying that MOST people are negative here. However, I do see more arguments and tension lately.

My point was, it's wrong from both sides. It's funny to me that you would only quote that paragraph, because I also pointed out unfair things from the natural "side" right below that.

 

[jamaraa]

Neith why do you think that is wrt the tension? I've noticed it too and I wonder if it's just the cyclical nature of the board or the movie. Sometimes naturals are dominant, sometimes relaxed, and ALWAYS a flavor of the month growth aid. What gives?

 

[Theresamonet]

Wow, you typed 'YOU' in all caps and everything. I'm guessing you didn't read the entire thread. In any case. Each to his own!

I read eeeeeverything including the climax when you called a poster an idiot. I also read your various posts thereafter where you tried to act like you did nothing wrong and everybody else is all defensive and carrying baggage and wearing armor and accusing you of crimes you didn't commit, lol...when really you are exhibiting all of the behaviors that you are complaining about...is that a good enough synopsis?

 

[Neith]

Neith why do you think that is wrt the tension? I've noticed it too and I wonder if it's just the cyclical nature of the board or the movie. Sometimes naturals are dominant, sometimes relaxed, and ALWAYS a flavor of the month growth aid. What gives?

There was always a natural vs. relaxed thread popping up now and then.

but now, I think it's probably that movie causing the trouble. Then the Oprah show, and the Tyra show, the View, Wendy Williams and all the rest of the 717,363,336 spin offs. It's fresh on the mind and getting us thinking (and a little defensive, both "sides")

I had a middle aged white guy asking me what I think about the Oprah hair show. It's not even only us If it's on HIS mind, we have no chance.

At least we are over that type 3 vs. type 4 trend at the moment.

 

[Raine054]

I read eeeeeverything including the climax when you called a poster an idiot. I also read your various posts thereafter where you tried to act like you did nothing wrong and everybody else is all defensive and carrying baggage and wearing armor...when really you are exhibiting all of the behaviors that you are complaining about...is that a good enough synopsis?

No, it isn't.

 

[CollegeGrad]

Since this bad boy is gonna be gone by morning anyway.......

One person calling her boyfriends hair taco meat or a couple of somebody's saying Zahara needs her hair combed (and I stan for Z) does not constitute an all out assault on naturals.

Naturals get support here all the time from transition to long term and it's not just the type 3's either and that support is not just limited to other naturals on the board. If that really wasn't the case alot of folks including myself would have bounced up out of here long ago.

I don't know about that...

I've noticed that there have been numerous attacks on natural hair lately, specifically 4a/b. Sometimes they're just ignorant ("I wish I could have a baby with nahla's hair! It's so simple to keep up!") but most of the time it's mean and on purpose. I think it's a backlash from all those times relaxed hair got put down when a wave of people went natural some months ago.

 

[jamaraa]

There was always a natural vs. relaxed thread popping up now and then.

but now, I think it's probably that movie causing the trouble. Then the Oprah show, and the Tyra show, the View, Wendy Williams and all the rest of the 717,363,336 spin offs. It's fresh on the mind and getting us thinking (and a little defensive, both "sides")

I had a middle aged white guy asking me what I think about the Oprah hair show. It's not even only us If it's on HIS mind, we have no chance.

At least we are over that type 3 vs. type 4 trend at the moment.

A type 3 vs type 4 war? I must have been on one of my LHCF breaks then. Glad I was!

Oy vey....I guess we should gear up for a new episode of Stupid White Folks Stupid Questions Hour. After all, they watch Oprah more then we do. She's their guide to all things Black!

 

[sharifeh]

Some of y'all need to keep Nappturality's name out of y'alls mouth. I ain't saying, I'm just saying.

exactly what i was thinking......or what?!

Nappturality Nappturality Nappturality Nappturality Nappturality Nappturality Nappturality

sorry I had to!!!!!!

I'm totally kidding!

What is rude or 'not nice' or offensive about someone firmly declaring that the beauty of black natural hair (what grows out of your scalp naturally) is unparalleled? That one need not chemicalize their heads? That your natural hair (again, what grows out of your scalps) is beautiful and that it is a travesty that droves of black women would rather burn their scalps up, don jacked-up hair, spend exorbitant amounts of money to erase all traces of that racially identifying physical characteristic (hair, once more, what grows out of our own heads) to appease non-blacks and some misguided blacks.

LOL. If anything, folks' should feel somewhat empowered that there are actually some people in the black community that feel that natural hair (one mo' 'gin, what grows out of your scalps) isn't taboo, ugly, or unacceptable and don't have a need to hide it under perpetual pressing and toxic chemicals. I cannot for the life of me understand how standing up for natural hair is offensive. That speaks volumes about how sensitive and how indoctrinated this whole bad hair crap goes down. We can't even be proud of our OWN hair w/out someone getting offended... but folks can talk all day about how silky they want their hair, how excited they are to chemicalize after 3 months of experiencing their 'unsightly' new growth, how they cannot stand not having "swingy" hair, how folks can't wait to BKT over relaxed hair to really get that european look. THAT is okay and cool.

IMO, folks who get all riled up about naturals proclaiming a preference for what grows out of their scalps naturally are not confident about their decision to relax. They know the deal about relaxers and the history, but don't wanna listen to the rhetoric bc they gotta still look "fly" (for their men, for their jobs, whatever) and don't want to feel some type of way about their decision.

If ya relax, ya relax, fine. Personal choice, but why get offended if a natural states that what grows out of their scalps is preferable to something phony and developed from a time of hate of Africans and oppression?

Rudeness is not always about what is said, it's about how it's said
I can say 2 plus 2 is 4 and be rude


"2 plus 2 is 4 stupid!!!" < see? that was rude


Standing up for natural hair is not offensive...it's just people's way of doing it that can be. And this goes both ways.

And hair is not the most important racially identifying characteristic, skin color usually does a pretty good job of identifying your race
Some people don't even show their hair to the outside world (moi)

Honestly I think you made a whole bunch of assumptions and allegations about people that relax their hair in that very post...

Anyway, people just need to not be rude
There is no need for arrogance and superiority/inferiority complexes.

I also apologize to anyone I have ever offended with a hair comment. I know that I have made "new growth" comments and I'm truly sorry if I hurt anyone.
It sucks to feel offended and insulted.
Like someone said before me, rude behavior shouldn't be justified. If anyone has offended someone don't ask "why they are offended? I didn't do anything!" Just apologize and KIM.

I have learned on this board that certain people are offended by terms and other things that I would never guess! Everyone is different and offended by different things and people should be tactful and try to hold their tongue. I'm writing this for myself more than for anyone else.
Hopefully I can take my own advice.

Now let's kiss and make up!!!!!

 

[Theresamonet]

No, it isn't.

I pretty much expected this type of response from someone who calls a fellow member an idiot and then goes "Who...what...huh...?!?!I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HER HAIR!!!!" ...

 

[Raine054]

I pretty much expected this type of response from someone who calls a fellow member an idiot and then goes "Who...what...huh...?!?!I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT H
ER HAIR!!!!" ...

Your reasoning is selective thus arbitrary. I had no idea opinions and hair go hand in hand.

Oh, and Don't use direct quotes for something I never said. I would appreciate it very much.

 

[wild curls raquelle]

"Boo pass the popcorn, it's getting good."

But seriously once we can learn not to be defined by our hair I think we will be able to move forward as BW. I tried posting on Nappturally. I was scared by the tactics of some members so I decided against it. I found NC.com I felt very welcomed and embraced and at the same time I found LHCF as I previously stated I was a bit uncomfortable because I felt there was a huge divide between natural and relaxed ladies. But I lurked because I love hair and I could sit and admire beautiful hair relaxed or natural all friggin day. I only recently began posting because I saw that some of the threads were meaningful and saw that many ladies on Fotki had much success from this site. I've seen naturals be nasty and relaxes be rude all in one snap. At the end of the day you're both brown and somebody else is probably passing judgement on you don't let your hair be the divide that is another opportunity for one to pass judgement upon.
Keep it healthy and happy.

 

[Honey Bee]

I'd noticed the increased tension as well. I mentioned it in a thread a while back, and people were acting like I was the crazy one, so I'm glad to see others have noticed it. Wrt the debate itself, wow, it's not that serious. It's just hair. I feel weird typing that cuz I'm so (healthy) hair obsessed, but, yeah, it's really just hair. It may help you stay warm, it may help you stay cool; it may help you get a man/job/apt, it may keep you from not getting that man/job/apt. At the end of the day, though, it is simply a means to an end... whichever one you choose.

Now, as to the atmosphere of the board right now, I think there are a few things going on. First of all, naturals are... I'm looking for the word... badgered by a good percentage of people on a pretty regular basis. Not white people, that I've noticed, more people of color in general. The people I'm talking about do tend to view natural, afro-textured hair as unkempt, or unprofessional. Therefore, if you are a woman with natural 4 a/b hair, you may feel as though your very being is devalued by the larger society. So, I can understand their defensiveness (yeah, I said it).

For those of us who have been relaxed too long to remember what their hair was even like, think about it like this: You went to school, you did what you're supposed to do, you're in reasonable shape, you're not unattractive... yet... you don't get the attention, the praise, whatever it is you want (like I said, a means to an end)... all because of a freakin' hair style, and not just any hair style, your natural hair the way it grows out of your head! How demoralizing is that? On a daily basis?

The second wave of sentiment contributing to the crazy atmosphere around here is coming from the relaxed/texlaxed ladies, who, contrary to the wider world, have been supportive to naturals on the board. Ladies, with Walt Disney princess hair, the stuff supposedly "beloved" by black men, who stop dc'ing, moisturizing, sealing, and just flowing with those long silky tresses for just long enough to tell a natural sista that she is doing the damn thing with that puff, or those braids, or whatever imaginative style they come up with next.

Yet, everyday, for the past few months, there are at least a handful of fairly popular threads talking about you (ie, "non-naturals"), and your personal motivations. It's disheartening. You start to feel like, wow, that's messed up, cuz I don't talk about them like that. Here I am, even though I'm re/texlaxed, I'm trynna discourage my sister from perming her 5 y.o.'s hair, really researching, showing love and respect to those fly natural ladies, and then Chris Rock makes a movie that blows it all to hell.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[Daughter]

I'm a proud subscribed member of Nappturality (and obviously LHCF ).

I just wanna say in the vein of the great Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

IMHO:

1. Having strong, passionate opinions isn't problematic, though some may be uncomfortable with that, especially if said opinion is contrary to your own. It would be a pity to stifle REASONED discussion about anything, including asking why one would relax or go natural.

2. Let's be respectful to one another, regardless of hair type, length or condition. How we talk to one another reflects what's in our heads rather than what's on our heads. More people, whether relaxed or natural, could do with using a bit more tact and diplomacy.

 

[jamaraa]

It's not the reasoned stuff that bugs me, it's the passive aggressive stuff that bugs me. If you think someone should go natural/relaxed/texlaxed/etc why not just say that rather than take the back road w/ convoluted arguments? Just say it. It's insulting to think that others won't pick up on your REAL meaning. I respect Nappturality members for this reason, they say what they mean and mean what they say.

Sometimes people get very much into projecting things off on to others. This is when it goes from pride in self to passive aggression towards others. If you're happy w/ what you got roll w/ it.

 

[loved]

Thanks OP. I've seen it and I don't visit the hair forums as much because of it, but it still comes through pretty strongly in the ENT forum.