Can we please have a moratorium on Natural/Relaxed threads?

[msa]

Yes, NP is hardcore and no talk of relaxers or straightening is permitted and sometimes even I think they are doing the most but some naturals need that kind of environment and support.

I go over there just to get a break from lhcf.

 

[jamaraa]

As a lifelong natural, I'll say that a certain zealousness and aggresion tends to be a stereotype about naturals that I despise. I've even had naturals try to preach at me and I find that ridiculous. I resent the idea that people might think I'm a snob and look down on them because that's been their experience w/ other naturals simply because they are relaxed. This is my thing, yeah...but I find it bad for the image of naturals in general.

 

[BostonMaria]

Yup. When I first got here you couldn't go without seeing 5 megatek threads A DAY. It was ridiculous...but as with everything else, something took its place.

I wonder what the next big thing will be.

I've been on over a year and I've seen the cycles...

The summer of 08 was all about Megatek. MT this and MT that. One thread alone had like a bazillion pages!

Then it was the BKT threads that popped up months ago. Made me hungry cuz I associate BKT with Burger King LOL

I think that the new topic now is Chris Rock.

As a natural myself I am genuinely curious as to how many others out there like myself did the BC later in life. I don't think that natural nazi is a good way of describing it though. I think everyone is a little sensitive lately with all this stuff going on in the media. I'm even becoming suspicious of certain members and wondering if they're really black or even female and are here to "research"

Oh and I go to NC to find more "natural" support. I do like that this forum isn't divided into relaxed and natural threads.

 

[jamaraa]

The Chris Rock movie really seems to be a big factor here. I honestly wish so many sistahs weren't so uptight about it. The man's an idiot and the film deals on old chestnuts, but this film won't really affect our lives methinks. Let's not take it too much to heart guys.

As for Nappturality, they make it 100% clear of what they're about to even a casual lurker. Nobody credibly can join there and then claim they had no idea of what it was about. If a person joins over there and doesn't repect their space, they take as they should (IMHO)...PERSONALLY. People pay to join and talk to others w/ their views (the site is far more philosophical than this one which mostly focuses on care issues). I've seen people complain about the site because they tried to disrespect the space and got served.

 

[jennboo]

What is rude or 'not nice' or offensive about someone firmly declaring that the beauty of black natural hair (what grows out of your scalp naturally) is unparalleled? That one need not chemicalize their heads? That your natural hair (again, what grows out of your scalps) is beautiful and that it is a travesty that droves of black women would rather burn their scalps up, don jacked-up hair, spend exorbitant amounts of money to erase all traces of that racially identifying physical characteristic (hair, once more, what grows out of our own heads) to appease non-blacks and some misguided blacks.

LOL. If anything, folks' should feel somewhat empowered that there are actually some people in the black community that feel that natural hair (one mo' 'gin, what grows out of your scalps) isn't taboo, ugly, or unacceptable and don't have a need to hide it under perpetual pressing and toxic chemicals. I cannot for the life of me understand how standing up for natural hair is offensive. That speaks volumes about how sensitive and how indoctrinated this whole bad hair crap goes down. We can't even be proud of our OWN hair w/out someone getting offended... but folks can talk all day about how silky they want their hair, how excited they are to chemicalize after 3 months of experiencing their 'unsightly' new growth, how they cannot stand not having "swingy" hair, how folks can't wait to BKT over relaxed hair to really get that european look. THAT is okay and cool.

IMO, folks who get all riled up about naturals proclaiming a preference for what grows out of their scalps naturally are not confident about their decision to relax. They know the deal about relaxers and the history, but don't wanna listen to the rhetoric bc they gotta still look "fly" (for their men, for their jobs, whatever) and don't want to feel some type of way about their decision.

If ya relax, ya relax, fine. Personal choice, but why get offended if a natural states that what grows out of their scalps is preferable to something phony and developed from a time of hate of Africans and oppression?

And, yea, this site is NOTHING like the other one. The responses from the supposedly "natural nazi's" on this site are meek and timid compared to what would be said to folks on the other site regarding relaxing.

 

[Junebug D]

Movie fever. And there are some rather... *cough*RUDE*cough* posters here who feel the need to state how superior their hair or their hair choice is compared to everyone else's. I have been utilizing the ignore feature lately, I'm grateful for it at times like this.

I think it'll die down some once the movie fever is over.

And this board does seem to have a bunch of new, excited naturals. All I can say is "Been there, done that" and keep it moving. It does get tiring though, when the same things are being repeated (often by the same people), like folks are trying to convince themselves.

 

[jamaraa]

What is rude or 'not nice' or offensive about someone firmly declaring that the beauty of black natural hair (what grows out of your scalp naturally) is unparalleled? That one need not chemicalize their heads? That your natural hair (again, what grows out of your scalps) is beautiful and that it is a travesty that droves of black women would rather burn their scalps up, don jacked-up hair, spend exorbitant amounts of money to erase all traces of that racially identifying physical characteristic (hair, once more, what grows out of our own heads) to appease non-blacks and some misguided blacks.

LOL. If anything, folks' should feel somewhat empowered that there are actually some people in the black community that feel that natural hair (one mo' 'gin, what grows out of your scalps) isn't taboo, ugly, or unacceptable and don't have a need to hide it under perpetual pressing and toxic chemicals. I cannot for the life of me understand how standing up for natural hair is offensive. That speaks volumes about how sensitive and how indoctrinated this whole bad hair crap goes down. We can't even be proud of our OWN hair w/out someone getting offended... but folks can talk all day about how silky they want their hair, how excited they are to chemicalize after 3 months of experiencing their 'unsightly' new growth, how they cannot stand not having "swingy" hair, how folks can't wait to BKT over relaxed hair to really get that european look. THAT is okay and cool.

IMO, folks who get all riled up about naturals proclaiming a preference for what grows out of their scalps naturally are not confident about their decision to relax. They know the deal about relaxers and the history, but don't wanna listen to the rhetoric bc they gotta still look "fly" (for their men, for their jobs, whatever) and don't want to feel some type of way about their decision.

If ya relax, ya relax, fine. Personal choice, but why get offended if a natural states that what grows out of their scalps is preferable to something phony and developed from a time of hate of Africans and oppression?

And, yea, this site is NOTHING like the other one. The responses from the supposedly "natural nazi's" on this site are meek and timid compared to what would be said to folks on the other site regarding relaxing.

I hear ya Jen, but why should someone feel empowered by another person's choices on such an intimate matter? Why should they think someone is such hot stuff for doing what was done 40 years ago? It was MUCH harder 40 years ago and even 20....why should anybody pat a natural on the back these days? LOL

Perhaps it's not the pride people feel about themselves that's the issue here, but the IMPLICATIONS frequently made about people who use relaxers and why they use them. LOL...your post is full of these implications. Frankly not everyone who is natural is so confident about THEIR decisions...if they were, they'd not need to resort to the old "self-hatred", "creamy crack" arguments. People who try to convert, implicitly or outright are not really doing so for the sake of others, IMHO. It's more self-interested.

There's a saying about "protesteth too much".

 

[jennboo]

I hear ya Jen, but why should someone feel empowered by another person's choices on such an intimate matter? Why should they think someone is such hot stuff for doing what was done 40 years ago? It was MUCH harder 40 years aho and even 20....why should anybody pat a natural on the back these days? LOL

Perhaps it's not the pride people feel about themselves that's the issue here, but the IMPLICATIONS made about people who use relaxers and why they use them. LOL...your post is full of these implications. Frankly not everyone who is natural is so confident about THEIR decisions...if they were, they'd not need to resort to the old "self-hatred", "creamy crack" arguments.

There's a saying about "protesteth too much".

Hi,

And i don't think anything was implied from my post, things were outright stated!!! (trying to inject a bit of levity into the discussion, LOL).

As i stated before, when folks solicit (either directly or in a round about fashion) opinions about the matter (or when folks voluntarily make crazy/ignorant statements about what grows out of their own heads), I will relay my opinions about it . If folks are annoyed/uncomfortable by my views, i honestly do not know what to tell 'em. I come respectful, i don't use the terms creamy crack or self-hatred in my posts, so i don't know what the problem is.

 

[Raine054]

What is rude or 'not nice' or offensive about someone firmly declaring that the beauty of black natural hair (what grows out of your scalp naturally) is unparalleled? That one need not chemicalize their heads? That your natural hair (again, what grows out of your scalps) is beautiful and that it is a travesty that droves of black women would rather burn their scalps up, don jacked-up hair, spend exorbitant amounts of money to erase all traces of that racially identifying physical characteristic (hair, once more, what grows out of our own heads) to appease non-blacks and some misguided blacks.

LOL. If anything, folks' should feel somewhat empowered that there are actually some people in the black community that feel that natural hair (one mo' 'gin, what grows out of your scalps) isn't taboo, ugly, or unacceptable and don't have a need to hide it under perpetual pressing and toxic chemicals. I cannot for the life of me understand how standing up for natural hair is offensive. That speaks volumes about how sensitive and how indoctrinated this whole bad hair crap goes down. We can't even be proud of our OWN hair w/out someone getting offended... but folks can talk all day about how silky they want their hair, how excited they are to chemicalize after 3 months of experiencing their 'unsightly' new growth, how they cannot stand not having "swingy" hair, how folks can't wait to BKT over relaxed hair to really get that european look. THAT is okay and cool.

IMO, folks who get all riled up about naturals proclaiming a preference for what grows out of their scalps naturally are not confident about their decision to relax. They know tc he deal about relaxers and the history, but don't wanna listen to the rhetoribc they gotta still look "fly" (for their men, for their jobs, whatever) and don't want to feel some type of way about their decision.

If ya relax, ya relax, fine. Personal choice, but why get offended if a natural states that what grows out of their scalps is preferable to something phony and developed from a time of hate of Africans and oppression?

And, yea, this site is NOTHING like the other one. The responses from the supposedly "natural nazi's" on this site are meek and timid compared to what would be said to folks on the other site regarding relaxing.

I don't think some of the women who commented are against women with natural hair being proud but only against being looked down upon for choosing to relax theirs. No one should be ostracized because of how they choose to wear their hair. Some people simply like straight hair. I know naturals who never wear their hair in its 'natural' state.

Your comments indicate that you assume that all naturals are suffering from some sort of Eurocentric 'Black is whack' concept. I love all hair- relaxed, tex-laxed, natural, etc. In fact, your comment is idiotic to imply that some do so because they are 'misguided'. Our hair isn't the the sole determining factor in whether or not we embrace our race.

But you are right about one thing...No one should get offended when someone with natural hair declares their preference but I believe the thread was started to comment on a sense of rising animosity rather than simply declaring a preference.

 

[Hysi]

i like both natural and relaxed. I've been relaxed for most of my life and i just needed a change. i have a terrible sensitivity to relaxers for some reason (must be that old lady spread setting in but i haven't seen my real texture in God knows when. That still doesn't mean that i'll never relax again. i love the knowledge on this board in both forms because it gives me the insight i need to make the right decision for me. all, if not most of my family is relaxed so i can use what i learn here to help them keep their hair healthy. trust... they do ask. AND i can find info on what to do with this natural thing i got going on. heck, i miss my perm already, but i must say i am intrigued with my natural hair at the moment.
I loves all yall. keep peace...

i love u, u love me, we're justa big hair fa-mi-ly....teehee

 

[msa]

Frankly not everyone who is natural is so confident about THEIR decisions...if they were, they'd not need to resort to the old "self-hatred", "creamy crack" arguments.

I just want to put on record, for the 50 billionth time, than in every relaxed/bkt v. natural conversation the most vocal naturals (including myself) have constantly said that relaxing has absolutely nothing to do with self-hatred.

And please, let's stop acting like relaxed heads don't use the term creamy crack as much, if not more, than naturals do. I actually never use the term because I don't like it, and neither do a lot of people (naturals included).

 

[msa]

Your comments indicate that you assume that all naturals are suffering from some sort of Eurocentric 'Black is whack' concept. I love all hair- relaxed, tex-laxed, natural, etc. In fact, you are an idiot to imply that some do so because they are 'misguided'. Our hair isn't the the sole determining factor in whether or not we embrace our race.

Do you have to resort to name calling?

And then folks wonder why "naturals" are defensive.

 

[jennboo]

I don't think some of the women who commented are against women with natural hair being proud but only against being looked down upon for choosing to relax theirs. No one should be ostracized because of how they choose to wear their hair. Some people simply like straight hair. I know naturals who never wear their hair in its 'natural' state.

Your comments indicate that you assume that all naturals are suffering from some sort of Eurocentric 'Black is whack' concept. I love all hair- relaxed, tex-laxed, natural, etc. In fact, you are an idiot to imply that some do so because they are 'misguided'. Our hair isn't the the sole determining factor in whether or not we embrace our race.

But you are right about one thing...No one should get offended when someone with natural hair declares their preference but I believe the thread was started to comment on a sense of rising animosity rather than simply declaring a preference.

LMAO. Just wanted to highlight the bolded for all to see (including mods).

Seems i hit a sore spot

 

[jamaraa]

Jenn, you know I think you're swell, right? I may disagree w/ ya here, but I do know where you're coming from.

 

[Neith]

I can see where both "sides" are coming from.

Relaxed ladies here know the risks, pros and cons of using a relaxer. No one wants to be hassled over their choice of hairstyle.

At the same time, relaxed ladies DO say offensive things about naturals/natural hair. What if I was to roll up in a relaxed person's thread and say, relaxed hair looks like limp, overcooked spaghetti? (for example) That's just uncalled for.


Many natural ladies are tired of hearing negative things about natural hair. Not only on the board, but in real life. Relaxing is the norm and many people are conditioned to not see the beauty in natural hair.

Being proud of yourself does not mean you have to tear others down. I have seen some uncalled for comments from naturals too. Just because someone says some ignorant BS doesn't mean that you have to respond the same way. MOST naturals have been relaxed at some point in their lives, it would make me a hypocrite to turn my nose up at another person for doing the same thing I did for years.


We are not our hair. Relaxed or Natural, we are all individuals from all walks of like with different lifestyles and we have MANY different reasons for the decisions we make in life. No one here should be playing psychiatrist or judging someone based off of A HAIRSTYLE.


Some of us DO have more hair/skin/"black people" issues than others, but that'll always be the case. I try to keep hope that by talking about it, more and more of us will take that look inward to see why we really feel the way we do about these issues.

 

[Raine054]

Don't associate the word idiot with her having natural hair. They have nothing to do with each other.

 

[jamaraa]

I just want to put on record, for the 50 billionth time, than in every relaxed/bkt v. natural conversation the most vocal naturals (including myself) have constantly said that relaxing has absolutely nothing to do with self-hatred.

And please, let's stop acting like relaxed heads don't use the term creamy crack as much, if not more, than naturals do. I actually never use the term because I don't like it, and neither do a lot of people (naturals included).

I've not seen them do that really...I was just refering to Jenn's post.

I'm glad you say that MSA....I never implied that ALL naturals use those arguments. I just dislike when those who do do. I know *I* don't, so why would I assume everyone else does?

 

[Raine054]

And no, you did not hit a sore spot except the spot that hates idiotic comments. I agree with some comments and disagree with others....I'm not looking at their hair to choose my response.

This is a forum

 

[msa]

Don't associate the word idiot with her having natural hair. They have nothing to do with each other.

No one said they did. The fact was you called her name, which is expressly against the rules of the forum.

If you want respect, you should start by giving it.

 

[msa]

I've not seen them do that really...I was just refering to Jenn's post.

I'm glad you say that MSA....I never implied that ALL naturals use those arguments. I just dislike when those who do do. I know *I* don't, so why would I assume everyone else does?

Oh I know you're not saying we all do.

It's just one of those things that always come up ("naturals think we relax because we hate ourselves"), when in fact I haven't seen a natural say that in the time I've been on the board. It's an assumption that's assigned to us as a group that irks the heck out of me.

 

[Junebug D]

There goes that "moratorium" for ya.adlock2:

 

[jamaraa]

And no, you did not hit a sore spot except the spot that hates idiotic comments. I agree with some comments and disagree with others....I'm not looking at their hair to choose my response.

This is a forum

Yeah, it's a forum but you didn't have to call her an idiot for her views. That was harsh and only goes to further a growing divide. I understand where she's coming from even if I don't agree. Naturals ARE hassled in real life and on boards far more than relaxed folks. People feel they have a right to verbally assualt naturals all the time. Jenn's PoV is coming from that reality I suspect....it's very real what she's talking about.

 

[Raine054]

Do you have to resort to name calling?

And then folks wonder why "naturals" are defensive.

"Why naturals are defensive". I think that speaks volumes. I wasn't attacking her hair, I was commenting on her post. I don't see the point of posting if you are not prepared to have your ideas agreed and disagreed with.

In any case, this is where is step out as I don't see this banter as being conductive to the purpose of the thread. As I said before, it is just a forum.

 

[msa]

"Why naturals are defensive". I think that speaks volumes. I wasn't attacking her hair, I was commenting on her post. I don't see the point of posting if you are not prepared to have your ideas agreed and disagreed with.

In any case, this is where is step out as I don't see this banter as being conductive to the purpose of the thread. As I said before, it is just a forum.

Yes, it is just a forum. But it's a forum with rules, one of which is to not call people names. Just in case you haven't seen the rules:

Name calling, personal attacks, insulting or degrading comments of any kind, or disrespecting the opinions of others is NOT allowed. It is expected that members will not always agree on everything, but we expect our members to disagree RESPECTFULLY with each other.

If you wanted to attack her ideas you could have said "that comment was idiotic". Attacking her was unnecessary and just wrong. Jenn is more than comfortable with having her ideas disagreed with, anyone can see that (if they've been here long enough).

And the reason why I made a comment about naturals being defensive is because in EVERY conversation like this one it's the naturals who end up being called names or attacked when posters don't agree with them.

 

[Raine054]

Yeah, it's a forum but you didn't have to call her an idiot for her views. That was harsh and only goes to further a growing divide. I understand where she's coming from even if I don't agree. Naturals ARE hassled in real life and on boards far more than relaxed folks. People feel they have a right to verbally assualt naturals all the time. Jenn's PoV is coming from that reality I suspect....it's very real what she's talking about.

I was trying so hard to stay out!!!!

Jamaraa, I had no idea that naturals are hassled in real life and on boards far more than relaxed folks. Does that happen here? Women of color shouldn't be hassled for their hair choices- AT ALL! I'm not verbally assaulting a natural! I'm called a statement made my a member idiotic. My opinion had nothing to do with how she chooses to wear her hair.

It's so hard for anyone to come to this discussion without baggage corresponding to their own hair choice.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I was being facetious. I don't go that hard for anything.

Yes, NP is hardcore and no talk of relaxers or straightening is permitted and sometimes even I think they are doing the most but some naturals need that kind of environment and support.

It grinds my gears that so many folks seem to be against a website that promotes black beauty and tries to get black women to love and accept their hair as it is. Yes, relaxers are hated over there but there is no hatred for the people that use them. I just don't understand how folks supposedly so comfortable with their decision to relax would get upset over a site such as NP. *shrugs*

I been a member over there for going on 5 years, hell even paid for a subscription for a while, so I'm not throwing shade in that direction.
~~~~~~~~

I think that natural vs relaxed is an important discussion. But when people approach this topic as though there is already a winner or loser on general principle based on where they fall on the hair spectrum, then the result is everybody talking and nobody listening.

IMO, that's why so many threads end up going in frustrating circles.

 

[Neith]

Raine054 - The point is, no one should be called an idiot or any other derogatory name here.

No one here said that you were literally attacking her hair to my knowledge. If they did, then I disagree.

We can have a debate/discussion without personal attacks.

I think that natural vs relaxed is an important discussion. But when people approach this topic as though there is already a winner or loser on general principle based on where they fall on the hair spectrum, then the result is everybody talking and nobody listening.

IMO, that's why so many threads end up going in frustrating circles.

ITA

 

[jennboo]

"Why naturals are defensive". I think that speaks volumes. I wasn't attacking her hair, I was commenting on her post. I don't see the point of posting if you are not prepared to have your ideas agreed and disagreed with.

In any case, this is where is step out as I don't see this banter as being conductive to the purpose of the thread. As I said before, it is just a forum.

Hi,

I welcome disagreement. It is through disagreements that discussions/debate ensues and, maybe, novel ideas form or enlightenment happens.

I am actually glad that you said what you said. W/out my even having to exert much effort on your post, you've actually lost credibility. It also showed that my views really upset you enough to resort to that sort of thing, which is telling. **shrugs**.

I'm Jay-Z : "I give'em enough rope, they put themselves in the air, i just kick away the chair"

 

[jamaraa]

I was trying so hard to stay out!!!!

Jamaraa, I had no idea that naturals are hassled in real life and on boards far more than relaxed folks. Does that happen here? Women of color shouldn't be hassled for their hair choices- AT ALL! I'm not verbally assaulting a natural! I'm called a statement made my a member idiotic. My opinion had nothing to do with how she chooses to wear her hair.

It's so hard for anyone to come to this discussion without baggage corresponding to their own hair choice.

Not so much here, but you should see YouTube and other Black oriented sites like Black Voices. It's awful.

I wasn't saying YOU verbally assualted Jenn, but that it happens. Your comment was quite mild compared to what's out there to be had. I didn't think you were going after her for her hair, but her post. However elsewhere people do after naturals over their hair...harshly.

I understand you were upset by what she wrote...I didn't like it myself.

 

[Raine054]

Yes, it is just a forum. But it's a forum with rules, one of which is to not call people names. Just in case you haven't seen the rules:


If you wanted to attack her ideas you could have said "that comment was idiotic". Attacking her was unnecessary and just wrong. Jenn is more than comfortable with having her ideas disagreed with, anyone can see that (if they've been here long enough).

And the reason why I made a comment about naturals being defensive is because in EVERY conversation like this one it's the naturals who end up being called names or attacked when posters don't agree with them.

Are the naturals being called names here? Are the relaxed heads being called names as well? I'm not sure what you're getting at msa. No one should be called names at all. I adjusted my statement to call her comments idiotic. It is idiotic and that's how I feel. Every response I read insinuates that my opinion is somehow affected by her hair choice. That is silly and presumptuous.

I still think her statement is idiotic. I don't agree with what Jamaraa said but I liked her previous post.

Everyone is walking into this thread with their armor on and their stance chosen and cemented so no one is given a chance to make a comment without being placed on a side (relaxed or natural).