Can we have real talk about this walk?

[Guitarhero]

I don't live in a holier than thou bubble and there are simply some things that bother me. Right now? The sex scandal in the church. What do they think people should have done, shut up about it? What about the kids? I don't give a care what those higher ups had to say, kids were abused and mistreated and authorities were shuffled around! Think I'm talking about one church? Oh no, it's global and inter-denominational. This is wearing on my heart because we all know that the implications for posterity are going to be a booger. What about how they feel?

Another thing, yes, that money issue. We all know so I won't reiterate point for point, but why are they driving Bentley's and the rest of us the proletariat chariot? Just looks plain bad, man. I give what I can and when I can and if I'm not perfect about it, I don't need somebody else trying to tell me how to figure it out. I've got the good book. I'll get to where I need to be. But c'mon, people don't go to hell for not tithing 10 percent like clockwork. Maybe you can, but many others cannot. And it doesn't mean that I'm in sin. There are a myriad of reasons someone might not be for the moment. If God can give me redemption, don't you think He can understand?

Now, speaking in tongues. I am working through that past disappointment and embarassmet with that world traveler who came to town. Pushing on my head to knock me back on the ground, so I could writhe in a holy seizure to bring honor to whom, him? I'd probably be a horrible candidate for hypnosis but having me utter consonantal clusters in stream isn't exactly what I had in mind. And me, the fool, standing there accepting it. Dagger to the heart for my own stupidity because my fake-dar went off like a bleating siren. Why me? Why all this now and why the rant? Because I'm real. These are the things bothering me right now. I already have the solution but I just want to get it off my heart. Jesus wept, laughed, got frustrated. Me too.

If we expect the world to follow Christ, shouldn't we be setting the proper examples? No wonder so many people call it b.s. I would too if I were seeing all this. Detox has to occur from inside out, beginning with us. Am I wrong for pointing out the failures of the church? Nope. I'm sure there are so many who feel the same way. I just hope we can all pick ourselves up from out of the dirty mud and wear clean garments.erplexed What a mess, what a shame, a travesty and the silence from the flock? I'd think people would have been much more vocal. There were bigger crowds at the cruxifiction!

 

[Poohbear]

CreoleNat, I'm surprised you started a thread like this. I tried to make some of the same points you have made and was shot down in a few threads.

And just to touch on the money issue, I now have different views about tithing/giving than the traditional church pushes on people: http://www.gotquestions.org/tithing-Christian.html

 

[Crown]

Don't be frustrated! Paul has already answered your questions in the chapter 3 of 2Timothy.

3.1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 3.2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3.3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 3.4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 3.5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 3.6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 3.7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 3.8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 3.9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

3.10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 3.11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 3.12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 3.13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 3.14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 3.15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3.16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3.17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Sharpened]

What you have said is a part of why I am done with these overblown man-made systems and favor a return to the simplicity and intimacy of the early Christians. The larger the entity, the more corruption it will have.

 

[loolalooh]

I don't live in a holier than thou bubble and there are simply some things that bother me. Right now? The sex scandal in the church. What do they think people should have done, shut up about it? What about the kids? I don't give a care what those higher ups had to say, kids were abused and mistreated and authorities were shuffled around! Think I'm talking about one church? Oh no, it's global and inter-denominational. This is wearing on my heart because we all know that the implications for posterity are going to be a booger. What about how they feel?

Another thing, yes, that money issue. We all know so I won't reiterate point for point, but why are they driving Bentley's and the rest of us the proletariat chariot? Just looks plain bad, man. I give what I can and when I can and if I'm not perfect about it, I don't need somebody else trying to tell me how to figure it out. I've got the good book. I'll get to where I need to be. But c'mon, people don't go to hell for not tithing 10 percent like clockwork. Maybe you can, but many others cannot. And it doesn't mean that I'm in sin. There are a myriad of reasons someone might not be for the moment. If God can give me redemption, don't you think He can understand?

Now, speaking in tongues. I am working through that past disappointment and embarassmet with that world traveler who came to town. Pushing on my head to knock me back on the ground, so I could writhe in a holy seizure to bring honor to whom, him? I'd probably be a horrible candidate for hypnosis but having me utter consonantal clusters in stream isn't exactly what I had in mind. And me, the fool, standing there accepting it. Dagger to the heart for my own stupidity because my fake-dar went off like a bleating siren. Why me? Why all this now and why the rant? Because I'm real. These are the things bothering me right now. I already have the solution but I just want to get it off my heart. Jesus wept, laughed, got frustrated. Me too.

If we expect the world to follow Christ, shouldn't we be setting the proper examples? No wonder so many people call it b.s. I would too if I were seeing all this. Detox has to occur from inside out, beginning with us. Am I wrong for pointing out the failures of the church? Nope. I'm sure there are so many who feel the same way. I just hope we can all pick ourselves up from out of the dirty mud and wear clean garments.erplexed What a mess, what a shame, a travesty and the silence from the flock? I'd think people would have been much more vocal. There were bigger crowds at the cruxifiction!

Especially the bolded.

 

[Sharpened]

Jeremiah 13:25-26 - This is your lot, the portion of your measures from me, said the LORD; because you have forgotten me, and trusted in falsehood. Therefore will I discover your skirts on your face, that your shame may appear.

Nahum 3:4-5 - Because of the multitude of the prostitutions of the well favored harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that sells nations through her prostitutions, and families through her witchcrafts. Behold, I am against you, said the LORD of hosts; and I will discover your skirts on your face, and I will show the nations your nakedness, and the kingdoms your shame.

These things have to happen, are happening, and will get worse. Very few are prepare for this...

Ecclesiastes 1:9 - The thing that has been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Laela]

You know it's interesting that you said 'entity' and not church... Jesus spoke to thousands, what would be considered a 'mega church' today. But I too would like the simplicity of the early church, which doesn't necessarily have to do with size, but sincerity in worship. Churches are run like businesses/enterprises today...still there are people who worship Him in spirit and in truth in those 'entities'. Matthew 13 - the wheat and tares will always be until the End. It is written:

Matthew 24:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

What you have said is a part of why I am done with these overblown man-made systems and favor a return to the simplicity and intimacy of the early Christians. The larger the entity, the more corruption it will have.

 

[Sharpened]

You know it's interesting that you said 'entity' and not church... Jesus spoke to thousands, what would be considered a 'mega church' today. But I too would like the simplicity of the early church, which doesn't necessarily have to do with size, but sincerity in worship. Churches are run like businesses/enterprises today...still there are people who worship Him in spirit and in truth in those 'entities'. Matthew 13 - the wheat and tares will always be until the End. It is written:

Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Jesus is the only human who had ever lived who could preach to thousands and not let it go to his head. Also, Jesus never stayed in one place for too long; the apostles traveled as well. This is why I think some pastors are of the itinerary persuasion, that way they subject themselves to the full brunt of human criticism (their "fire of refinement").

Matthew 13:29 mainly speaks of the world and how we operate in it. This is why we need to stay with Him in all things and sacrifice ourselves to Him, not just a nightly prayer or one or two days per week. If this was actually happening, people like me would not exist. I can never say all churches are corrupt because He has shown me otherwise. Nor, can I say all who attend corrupt churches are completely deceived. When He does call His people out (and that is happening), will they obey or stay with what they know?

We are going to have to an analysis of Matthew 24 because it fits so well with what is going on today.

 

[Poohbear]

I agree with Nymphe.

However, Matthew 24:29 doesn't say what Laela posted. Matthew 24:29 says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

That verse is speaking of Jesus' return...

It is Matthew 13:29 that says, "But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them."

The verse is taken from the parable of the weeds that Jesus tells in Matthew 13:24-30. It talks about how the young tares (or weeds) and the young blades of wheat look the same and can't be distinguished until they are grown and ready to harvest. Tares (unbelievers) and wheat (believers) must live side by side in this world. God allows unbelievers to remain for a while just as a farmer allows tares to remain in his field so the surrounding wheat isn't uprooted with them. At the harvest, however, the weeds will be uprooted and thrown away. God's harvest (judgment) of all mankind is coming. We are to make ourselves ready by making sure our faith is sincere.

 

[Sharpened]

^^^Thanks for the correction. Sometimes I get Luke 13 mixed up with Matthew 24 because they say almost exactly the same thing.

 

[Laela]

Good points

Jesus is the only human who had ever lived who could preach to thousands and not let it go to his head. Also, Jesus never stayed in one place for too long; the apostles traveled as well. This is why I think some pastors are of the itinerary persuasion, that way they subject themselves to the full brunt of human criticism (their "fire of refinement").

Matthew 13:29 mainly speaks of the world and how we operate in it. This is why we need to stay with Him in all things and sacrifice ourselves to Him, not just a nightly prayer or one or two days per week. If this was actually happening, people like me would not exist. I can never say all churches are corrupt because He has shown me otherwise. Nor, can I say all who attend corrupt churches are completely deceived. When He does call His people out (and that is happening), will they obey or stay with what they know?

We are going to have to an analysis of Matthew 24 because it fits so well with what is going on today.

Yeah, me too...

^^^Thanks for the correction. Sometimes I get Luke 13 mixed up with Matthew 24 because they say almost exactly the same thing.