Breaking/Shedding Frustration

[caramelqt3683]

Breaking/Shedding Frustration, Please Help!

Hello all, I'm a new subscriber but long time lurker here so I'll try to give all the info I can to help you help me.

I started my hair journey in Feb. of this year (2013) when I decided once and for all that I WILL have long hair finally. I've never had the time, patience, knowledge to do so in the past so I'm finally trying to get myself on the right track to long, healthy relaxed hair. My hair has never been healthy enough to grow much past shoulder length.

I have been relaxing since I was twelve years old and will continue to do so because I never did like natural hair. I am half Caucasian, half African American so my 4a/3c hair is quite temperamental. I have been learning what my hair needs, likes, hates, etc. through trial and error but its still a work-in progress. My hair feels soft, smooth (most of the time), moisturized (cool to touch), and looks pretty healthy and shiny but is still breaking AND shedding. So I need some advice, please. What am I doing wrong?
~TIA~

My questions are:
1. Is there any way I can finally stop my breakage/shedding? (I know, very common question...)
2. Is it possible to have healthy hair that still has breakage/shedding?
3. Can I ever retain length if my breakage/shedding cannot be stopped?

My Reggie:
Every 8-12 weeks: Relaxer (Deep Protein 1 week before Relaxer and as Needed);
Monthly/As Needed: Clarify
Weekly (Sunday Wash): Shampoo Wash, Light Protein/Moisturizing Conditioner
Weekly Co-Wash (Wed.): Conditioner Wash, ACV/RPC Final Rinse
Daily: M/S, Protective Style (Buns, pony/bantu knot), Wrap Hair in Satin/Silk Scarf at night.

Other Info:
***I've been following the reggies from an older post from Supergirl
***DC under hooded dryer for 45 mins (all washes except after Co-Wash), M/S and Air-Dry after all washes
***Pre-Poo before all washes overnight (I heart Coconut Oil!!!)
***Taking 5K mcg Biotin, 2K mg MSM, Hair/Skin/Nails MultiVitamin Daily
***Upping water intake/eating healthy
***Flat Iron/Blow-Dry on special occasions with heat protection (< twice monthly)
***Dust Split Ends as needed
***Trying to keep my hands out of my hair

 

[caramelqt3683]

*Bump* Anyone?

Sent from my iPhone using LHCF

 

[tiffers]

Your reggie sounds good, although I always suggest stretching 12+ weeks. When you relax, do you only relax the new growth, or do you pull the relaxer through the entire length of your hair?

Which clarifying shampoo do you use? You may need to take it a step further and chelate.

What products are you using? Products can make or break your hair.

 

[Lilmama1011]

If it's under 100 hairs I wouldn't worry

 

[Lilmama1011]

If it's mostly breaking then your Over manipulating your hair at it's fragile state or using your styling tools (comb or brush) too roughly, but shedding is normal, so if you see the bulb at the the hairs your fine unless over 100 hairs. Are you stressing or overlapping relaxer causing weaker hair?

 

[mshoneyfly]

I agree with tiffers that you need to chelate. I have just discovered that my hair does NOT like silicones and when I chelate then use more natural products my hair starts to thrive. Look closely at your ingredients.

So I would ask, what moisturizer, conditioner and poo are you using?

I recently had some mild breakage and shedding and I corrected it with carrot oil

 

[caramelqt3683]

Your reggie sounds good, although I always suggest stretching 12+ weeks. When you relax, do you only relax the new growth, or do you pull the relaxer through the entire length of your hair?

Which clarifying shampoo do you use? You may need to take it a step further and chelate.

What products are you using? Products can make or break your hair.

I never pull the relaxer through the length of my hair, I only ever intentionally relax the NG. I haven't been as careful in the past with my relaxers as I should have out of ignorance. I will be now that I have more knowledge on the damage of overlapping. That being said, it is possible that I did accidentally over-lap last time, but only slightly if so. :imstupid:

Products: (I just got KeraCare Hydrating Detangling Shampoo but haven't tried it yet) I was using Pantene Length and Strength Shampoo and didn't like it; ORS Replenishing Condish Weekly *Staple*; VO5 Moisture Milk Passion Fruit Smoothie for Co-Wash, DC with NTM Mask; Moisturize with NTM Silk Touch Leave-In *Staple*/Lacio Lacio *Staple*/Cantu Shea Butter/Infusium 23 depending how I wear my hair and what my hair needs more of at the time (Protein vs. Moisture vs. Both); Seal with Coconut Oil; Pre-Poo with African Royale Hot Six + Coconut Oil + Grapeseed Oil; I also use Paul Mitchell Super Skinny Serum sometimes because it makes my hair sleeker and shinier. I'm still experimenting with my products to see which works best for me and what to cut out.

Back-Ups: Aphogee 2 min Reconstructor - doesn't make my hair as soft or healthy feeling as the ORS, Joico K-Pack Reconstructor - Can't use more than 2x/month.

*I have not tried this yet but I have Aphogee 2-Step for Heavy Protein and will use it with Aphogee Balancing Moisturizer. I'm not sure how my hair will react to that much protein which is why I haven't tried it yet.

 

[caramelqt3683]

If it's mostly breaking then your Over manipulating your hair at it's fragile state or using your styling tools (comb or brush) too roughly, but shedding is normal, so if you see the bulb at the the hairs your fine unless over 100 hairs. Are you stressing or overlapping relaxer causing weaker hair?

I might have over-lapped by mistake on my last relaxer.

I definitely have both breakage - short little hairs/long hairs with no bulb and Shedding - long hairs with bulb and its far less than 100, about 10 each/day. I'm not as worried about the shedding as I am about the breakage though because it seems to me with my current reggie and products my hair should be thriving, right?

I am very gentle with combing my hair and only brush to wrap it. Oh and I never brush my hair while its wet (just an FYI).

I know my hair needs moisture daily... so I'm probably over-manipulating when I M/S 1-2x/daily but its seems like a catch-22 because if I don't M/S daily it gets dry and breaks anyhow, and worse.

I agree with tiffers that you need to chelate. I have just discovered that my hair does NOT like silicones and when I chelate then use more natural products my hair starts to thrive. Look closely at your ingredients.

So I would ask, what moisturizer, conditioner and poo are you using?

I recently had some mild breakage and shedding and I corrected it with carrot oil

What is the difference between Chelating and Clarifying? I'm assuming Chelating is a stronger or different type of cleanser?

Also, I think my hair likes cones, but how can I tell for sure? It always seems shinier, smoother with cones and I don't think I have many products without cones...

 

[mshoneyfly]

Chelating poos contain the ingredient disodium EDTA. It removes mineral deposits found in hard water and relaxers. This can lead to build up that will cause hair to break. A neutralizing poo will do the same. I use ors creamy aloe poo to chelate. Any poo with sulfates will clarify regular product buildup so I just chelate and take care of it all. I have been doing my first wash with ors then 2nd wash with whatever poo I want to follow up with lately.

The cones are designed to make the hair easy to manage and look good. You're right that most every product has one or more of them. They coat the hair shaft which leads to build up. They dont let in any other moisture so the hair is not properly moisturized. This causes breakage

 

[tiffers]

^^^ mshoneyfly just wrote everything that I was about to type. Good advice.

 

[koolkittychick]

Sounds like you have a very good regimen (more than I do!), but I did see some areas for improvement that made all the difference for me in getting from SL (where I was stuck for 2 years!) to APL in just under a year:

1. Make a commitment to stretch your relaxers for at least 12 weeks. It will take some effort to learn to deal with the new growth, but it will make all the difference in helping your hair get strong enough for the next relaxer without breaking.
2. Put away the brush for now. Even with the softest brush, you may be losing hairs unecessarily due to overmanipulation with the brush, especially if you are using it to smooth your hairline or (horror!) smooth it back or up for a pony. A wide-toothed comb followed by a little-bit-finer comb will accomplish the same thing without taking so much of your hair. By extension, if you are wrapping the traditional way (around your head in one direction), try cross wrapping instead. You can find a bunch of videos on YouTube that can show you how to do this. Speaking of styling methods...
3. How are you securing your buns/ponies? Learning to bun without hair ties (basically you do one big bantu knot) and doing them loosely made all the difference in reducing breakage over all but especially in the back for me.
4. Don't be aftaid to try incorporationg more protien in your regimen, especially products containing keratin, which your hair is made of. It helped a lot for me. I alternated between Aphogee 2 minute reconstructor and ORS replenishing pak with no ill effect on my fragile hair. Just make sure the leave-in you use to M&S is water-based and ultra moisturizing when you do the protein.

These are the tweaks I see might help; good luck in turning your breakage around.

 

[Supergirl]

My questions are:
1. Is there any way I can finally stop my breakage/shedding? (I know, very common question...)
2. Is it possible to have healthy hair that still has breakage/shedding?
3. Can I ever retain length if my breakage/shedding cannot be stopped?

Great questions

We consider shedding a natural phenomenon. Hair goes through phases and one of those phases includes shedding. There are health impairments that can also cause shedding, but I won't get into that. Breakage, on the other hand, is what happens to weak hair that's just in poor condition. Breakage is usually the result of poor handling and "abuse."

You can stop your breakage by using quality products. A solid moisturizing conditioner and a protein conditioner are a must. More than one is fine if you're a PJ. You'll also need to stop using heat on your hair. I think twice a month is too often for flat ironing and blow drying. My advice is to cut your blow dryer usage down to one hand a year, as in no more than 5 times in a year. Flat iron after airdrying no more than once a month. This is what will make the biggest difference.

Your hair can be healthy with breakage and shedding, but there's a breakage "continuum." A lot of breaking and shedding does not equate to healthy hair. A small amount of breaking and shedding should not keep you from having hair that is, for the most part, healthy.

You can retain length if you have breakage, but it won't be healthy length if the breakage is not under control. We have, at times on this board, seen people with hair that is long in spots or long but "chewed" looking at the last several inches. That's what I mean by unhealthy length. I think it's pointless to have long hair if it doesn't look nice.

Again, heat usage on any kind of hair, but especially our hair, is one of the top contributors to damaged, breaking hair. If you can wean yourself from heat along with being gentle with your hair, you will eventually get to the land of healthy, long hair.

Give your hair some time to start manifesting your healthy hair practices. I always share this. If you have hair on your head that is 3-4 years old, and you've been consistently using heat on your hair, then that hair is hair that has been affected by your old practices. It won't do a turnaround in a week when someone starts healthy hair care practices. What's done is done as far as the older hair is concerned. But as that hair grows out and is trimmed away, all that will be left will be super-healthy, well-taken-care-of hair that is thriving.

Best Wishes!

 

[Saludable84]

It greatly depends on why you have breakage. Breakage should be assessed wet versus dry. If it breaks when wet, you might need protein. If it breaks when dry, you might need moisture. Sometimes, dcing for 30-45 minutes can help greatly. Also, too much protein, even in a cowash, can cause breakage. Not moisturizing and sealing enough can be a target too. You may also need a reconstructer in case you have damage and porosity issues to correct 2 underlying issues. Organix oils for sealing are really good as well. I recommend the macadamia or ginger Awapuhi.

Relaxers have a lot to do with this too. I switched back to lye due to mineral deposits and moisture retention. If you use box kits, try to use a neutralizing conditioner that way it will get rid of the mineral deposits during the relaxer wash instead of waiting 2-3 weeks. Chelating can also help if you use box kits or live in a state with hard water. A filter may help too.

Manipulation is tricky, but I can't really give you any advice because to each is own. I comb through my hair before bunning it in the day and wrapping it at night simply because the less I comb the more I shed later. No. Thank. You. You can finger comb and keep protective styles to 100% or 50%, it is up to you.

Something I noticed is that combs have a lot to do with breakage. Some people say no, but since I bought a seamless comb, I've seen a dramatic decrease in breakage. You do not have to invest in one, but for decreases breakage, it is worth it.

Hope this helps Sweety!

Please excuse my iPhone; it's trying to get it together

 

[havilland]

You got some good advice. I would add that if you try the aphogee two step treatment, do not use the moisture condish that comes with it.

Use another moisture condish that you trust. That aphogee moisture condish is junk, in my opinion.

Also, flat ironing twice a month is alot. I would cut back to once a month, then every 6 weeks or LESS until you aren't using so much heat.

 

[Channy31]

MY hair is on the way to waist length and I still have some breakage!
You can still have breakage and long hair.

 

[caramelqt3683]

Sounds like you have a very good regimen (more than I do!), but I did see some areas for improvement that made all the difference for me in getting from SL (where I was stuck for 2 years!) to APL in just under a year:

1. Make a commitment to stretch your relaxers for at least 12 weeks. It will take some effort to learn to deal with the new growth, but it will make all the difference in helping your hair get strong enough for the next relaxer without breaking.
2. Put away the brush for now. Even with the softest brush, you may be losing hairs unecessarily due to overmanipulation with the brush, especially if you are using it to smooth your hairline or (horror!) smooth it back or up for a pony. A wide-toothed comb followed by a little-bit-finer comb will accomplish the same thing without taking so much of your hair. By extension, if you are wrapping the traditional way (around your head in one direction), try cross wrapping instead. You can find a bunch of videos on YouTube that can show you how to do this. Speaking of styling methods...
3. How are you securing your buns/ponies? Learning to bun without hair ties (basically you do one big bantu knot) and doing them loosely made all the difference in reducing breakage over all but especially in the back for me.
4. Don't be aftaid to try incorporationg more protien in your regimen, especially products containing keratin, which your hair is made of. It helped a lot for me. I alternated between Aphogee 2 minute reconstructor and ORS replenishing pak with no ill effect on my fragile hair. Just make sure the leave-in you use to M&S is water-based and ultra moisturizing when you do the protein.

These are the tweaks I see might help; good luck in turning your breakage around.

I will definitely try to start stretching my relaxers. Any stretching suggestions for a newbie? I always noticed severe breakage and massive tangles when I've tried to stretch in the past.

I do secure my ponies with ouchless hair ties/scrunchies most of the time. I just recently (within the week) started alternating with a bobby pin and secure one big, low bantu knot like you mentioned. Although with the bobby pin, it always seems to fall out. Apparently I'm not doing it right.

 

[KittyMeowMeow]

Hi, and welcome!

From the photo, it looks like you have fine hair (hairs thinner than a piece of thread). Fine hair can not take high damage, and heat & chemicals are the biggest culprits.

I think that much direct heat is too much, and when combined w/ relaxing can be a deadly combo. I would say direct heat no more than 1-4x/year, if at all. Use rollersets/wrapping & a hooded dryer for straight sets.

I agree with stretching the relaxers & learning everything you can from the relaxer technique threads. Any kind of overlapping can cause breakage, especially on fine hair.

Try using your deep protein more often. Nexxus Emergencee is a good one- didn't make my hair hard like the Aphogee.

Use a seamless comb if you aren't already. There are some good ones here: http://www.hotcombs.net/combs/

I think reducing the heat & improving your relaxer technique would make the biggest difference in the breakage.

Good luck!

 

[caramelqt3683]

Great questions

You can stop your breakage by using quality products. A solid moisturizing conditioner and a protein conditioner are a must. More than one is fine if you're a PJ. You'll also need to stop using heat on your hair. I think twice a month is too often for flat ironing and blow drying. My advice is to cut your blow dryer usage down to one hand a year, as in no more than 5 times in a year. Flat iron after airdrying no more than once a month. This is what will make the biggest difference.

Give your hair some time to start manifesting your healthy hair practices. I always share this. If you have hair on your head that is 3-4 years old, and you've been consistently using heat on your hair, then that hair is hair that has been affected by your old practices. It won't do a turnaround in a week when someone starts healthy hair care practices. What's done is done as far as the older hair is concerned. But as that hair grows out and is trimmed away, all that will be left will be super-healthy, well-taken-care-of hair that is thriving.
Best Wishes!

I'm pretty confident in the products I'm using for the most part but I'm always looking for products that might work better for me (and satisfy my PJ urges). So if you see any room for improvement, I'm willing to try it. I also just purchased Mizani H2O Intense Night-Time Treatment (as you recommended in a previous post) but I was wondering how long it would take to see any results? I only used it once because with my other products, I wasn't sure quite how to incorporate it into my Reggie. Any suggestions? I definitely need to learn to go easy on product usage and try not to be so heavy-handed.

That is a great point about my "older hair"! I was wondering how soon after I change my horrible hair-care ways that I would see improvement? I also was wondering if the damage I've done in the past can be somewhat repaired or if I've damaged my older hair beyond repair?

I'd just like to salvage what I can, I've already cut 2 inches of damage and splits in March so I could start my hair journey fresh. I also needed some reassurance that my reggie was effective and also see if there's anything that should be added/changed.

Thank you to all who took the time to help me out. I really appreciate it!

 

[koolkittychick]

I will definitely try to start stretching my relaxers. Any stretching suggestions for a newbie? I always noticed severe breakage and massive tangles when I've tried to stretch in the past.

I do secure my ponies with ouchless hair ties/scrunchies most of the time. I just recently (within the week) started alternating with a bobby pin and secure one big, low bantu knot like you mentioned. Although with the bobby pin, it always seems to fall out. Apparently I'm not doing it right.

When I first started stretching, tangles and breakage were a problem for me too, until I learned a couple of techniques for that:

1. I don't try to comb my new growth dry, ever. That doesn't mean I comb it wet either; my relaxed hair doesn't like it and will break at the line of demarcation. I will carefully finger part my hair into one or two inch sections, then apply my water-based moisturizer first to my roots, then to the ends, massage until softened, smooth a tiny bit of light oil on top, then carefully finger detangle using the harp method (look it up on YouTube). If it's really dry, I will mist it with some water just to help the moisturizer soften the hair, not to wet. Then I take my detangler comb and gently comb from the tips to the roots, finger detangling any knots as I feel them with my comb. When I'm finished with that section, I clip it to the side, get another section, detangle and gently comb it into the previous section. Does it take a long time? You bet! Does it minimize shedding and breakage? Absolutely!
2. For ponies, I don't do many of them anymore, but when I do, I use the new silicone hair ties that Scunchi makes. They are absolutely seamless like rubber bands, but made of a non-stick material that doesn't snag my hair in the least, and I love them! You can get them at Walgreens and they cost a little more, but so worth it.
3. For my buns, I use spin pins, and they are fantastic! They don't slip out, are comfortable enough to sleep in, and you need way fewer of them to secure your buns (I usually use only one or two, and my bun will hold firm all day). They are also readily available at Walgreens or Target, and come in one inch and two inch lengths for shorter and longer lengths respectively.

These techniques have enabled me to easily stretch for 12 weeks or more if necessary with hardly any breakage. Hopefully some of these will help for you as well.

 

[caramelqt3683]

Hi, and welcome!

From the photo, it looks like you have fine hair (hairs thinner than a piece of thread). Fine hair can not take high damage, and heat & chemicals are the biggest culprits.

I think that much direct heat is too much, and when combined w/ relaxing can be a deadly combo. I would say direct heat no more than 1-4x/year, if at all. Use rollersets/wrapping & a hooded dryer for straight sets.

I agree with stretching the relaxers & learning everything you can from the relaxer technique threads. Any kind of overlapping can cause breakage, especially on fine hair.

Try using your deep protein more often. Nexxus Emergencee is a good one- didn't make my hair hard like the Aphogee.

Use a seamless comb if you aren't already. There are some good ones here: http://www.hotcombs.net/combs/

I think reducing the heat & improving your relaxer technique would make the biggest difference in the breakage.

Good luck!

Thank You! I definitely have fine hair when relaxed but thick, coily, course hair when natural. I do not own a seamless comb, in fact I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it. So I will have to eventually (when I have some xtra cash) buy one. Until then I suppose I could just file down the one I have to hold me over. Has anyone found this effective?

When I first started stretching, tangles and breakage were a problem for me too, until I learned a couple of techniques for that:

1. I don't try to comb my new growth dry, ever. That doesn't mean I comb it wet either; my relaxed hair doesn't like it and will break at the line of demarcation. I will carefully finger part my hair into one or two inch sections, then apply my water-based moisturizer first to my roots, then to the ends, massage until softened, smooth a tiny bit of light oil on top, then carefully finger detangle using the harp method (look it up on YouTube). If it's really dry, I will mist it with some water just to help the moisturizer soften the hair, not to wet. Then I take my detangler comb and gently comb from the tips to the roots, finger detangling any knots as I feel them with my comb. When I'm finished with that section, I clip it to the side, get another section, detangle and gently comb it into the previous section. Does it take a long time? You bet! Does it minimize shedding and breakage? Absolutely!
2. For ponies, I don't do many of them anymore, but when I do, I use the new silicone hair ties that Scunchi makes. They are absolutely seamless like rubber bands, but made of a non-stick material that doesn't snag my hair in the least, and I love them! You can get them at Walgreens and they cost a little more, but so worth it.
3. For my buns, I use spin pins, and they are fantastic! They don't slip out, are comfortable enough to sleep in, and you need way fewer of them to secure your buns (I usually use only one or two, and my bun will hold firm all day). They are also readily available at Walgreens or Target, and come in one inch and two inch lengths for shorter and longer lengths respectively.

These techniques have enabled me to easily stretch for 12 weeks or more if necessary with hardly any breakage. Hopefully some of these will help for you as well.

I always tried to dry de-tangle my NG with my comb. I'll have to learn much more about how to care for my NG. I usually give up once I feel like I can't deal with it and just relax (usually around 10 weeks post).

Also a question about Chelating: Can I Clarify and Chelate in the same wash if I DC really well or should I alternate, and how often?

Thanks!

 

[havilland]

Thank You! I definitely have fine hair when relaxed but thick, coily, course hair when natural. I do not own a seamless comb, in fact I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it. So I will have to eventually (when I have some xtra cash) buy one. Until then I suppose I could just file down the one I have to hold me over. Has anyone found this effective?

I always tried to dry de-tangle my NG with my comb. I'll have to learn much more about how to care for my NG. I usually give up once I feel like I can't deal with it and just relax (usually around 10 weeks post).

Also a question about Chelating: Can I Clarify and Chelate in the same wash if I DC really well or should I alternate, and how often?

Thanks!

Do not chelate and clarify. Chelate removes mineral build up and product build up. Clarify removes product build up. Doing both will strip the heck out of your hair. HTH

 

[Mande30]

You mention that you love coconut oil. I do also. But I learned, the hard way, that coconut oil does a good job at preventing protein loss. Because of this, I kept experiencing protein overload (breakage) from heavy proteins and too many sessions of light proteins. I was trying to do what most others did with the protein. But I found that my hair did not need as much. Now I only have one moderate (Aphogee 2 min) protein a month and right before my relaxer. My hair has done well with this. But as soon as I decide to throw in another, BAM- protein overload (it would seem that I would learn ) Whenever I am recovering from a protein overload, I have to stop using coconut oil for a few days.

This may not be the case with you, but it is worth being mindful of. If you cannot tolerate too much protein and you continue with it, the breakage will just continue and continue. Like someone else stated, check your strands while your hair is wet........ Take one strand and gently pull it, if..

-it stretches and returns- you are balanced (elasticity)
-it breaks before it stetches- you need more moisture (may be protein overloaded)
-it stretches and stretches and stretches- you need protein (moisture overload)

 

[caramelqt3683]

Do not chelate and clarify. Chelate removes mineral build up and product build up. Clarify removes product build up. Doing both will strip the heck out of your hair. HTH

Oh ok, I thought they each do different things.