Ayurvedic Experts/Users...Please help!

[FindingMe]

Ladies, I need help. I switched it up and tried an ayurvedic regi and my hair came out very weird.erplexed It appeared to kind of straighten my hair into more waves all over vs. coils (which I usually get a little on the ends) and was very frizzy. The odd thing was that it felt very soft and was easy to part/comb but that was in direct contrast to how it looked (strawish, broomish). It was like every strand was separate and distinct, no clumping whatsoever and that translated to a soft broom.

I put it in twists and it feels and looks fine, but it was just a dramatic departure from what I'm used to seeing after washing and before twisting. (sorry no pics)




here's what I did:

1. prepoo overnight with Vatika Oil all over and a little Jane Carter solution on the ends
2. wash with chagrin valley ayurvedic poo bar
3. condition 5 minutes with Nature's Gate conditioner
4. Rinse

Is the ayurvedic method supposed to kind of straighten out your hair? Was it supposed to be soft but frizzy? What did I do wrong? Maybe it just didn't like the poo bar...

Any suggestions as I'd like to give the sample poo bar another chance before I dismiss?


---------------------------------------------------------------
Chagrin Valley Ayurvedic HerbShampooBar:
Ingredients: Saponified oils of olive and rice bran (infused with Ayurvedic herbs Bhringraj, shikakai, hibiscus flowers, amla, tusli, methi (fenugreek), jasmine flowers, yashtimadhu, and neem), coconut, jojoba, castor bean, mango butter, neem oil, and babassu; organic coconut milk; filtered rainwater; organic aloe vera; powdered aritha, bhringraj, shikakai, and amla; essential oils of tulsi, cypress, juniper berry, lavender, lemon, orange, and black pepper; rosemary oil extract.

Dabur Vatika Hair Oil:
Ingredients: Coconut oil, Neem Leaves, Brahmi, Amla, Harar, Bahera, Kapurkachri, Henna, DM water, Cow milk, Rosemary oil, Lemon oil, Perfume, Antioxidant - Tert. butyl hydroquinone​

Jane Carter Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner :
Ingredients : Deionized Water, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Ceteareth 20, Extracts of: Green Tea, Sage, Rosemary, Basil, Mullein, Licorice, Thyme, and Vanilla, Certified Organic: Sunflower Oil, Aloe Vera, Jojoba Oil, Lavender Oil, Lemon Oil, Wheat Protein, Wheat Amino Acids, Tocopherol, Lecithin, Panthenol, Caprylic Acid, Glycine, Potassium Sorbate, Citric Acid

Nature's Gate Aloe Vera Moisturizing Conditioner for Normal to Dry Hair:
Ingredients: Water, Cetyl Alcohol, Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Juice, Hordeum Distichon (Barley) Extract, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract, Panthenol, Coffea Arabica (Coffee) Seed Extract, Viola Tricolor (Wild Pansy) Extract, Sesamum Indicum (Sesame) Seed Oil, Tocopherol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Butylene Glycol, Citric Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Phenoxyethanol, Fragrance.

 

[jamaraa]

OK...I'm gonna take things point-by-point, so please fill me in as we go along. Ayurveda is complicated so don't expect simple answers, but your hair shouldn't feel like you describe.

The bar...not all prepackaged (Western) products which claim they are Vedic are actually Vedic. Another poster mentioned this bar to me and I'm suspicious of how many ingredients it has in it (most Indian made vedic bars have very few) and I don't know this ingredient (I had planned to look it up) yashtimadhu Perhaps this herb by itself or in combo w/ the others are a problem here. I need time to find out.

If I buy a premade product, I buy only IndoPak made stuff. With herbs, I choose how much I use in any way, combo or single. I usually use no more than 1/4 tsp of each, so I go for 1:1 proportions, but only in henna mixes. I don't do teas or use the herbs "raw" except when I'm infusing oils.

Veda is now a trend and Western makers will exploit it, but much of this is about proportion of herbs/oils to each other. This bar makes me nervous about this cuz of how many things are in it. I wanna know how MUCH of each did they use?! It doesn't tell that. That can make all the difference.

 

[jamaraa]

I'm also careful about what Western conventional products I use in combo w/ my vedic stuff. I've always found Nature's Gate and most "organic" products found in health food stores far too drying for my hair. I can't predict how it would work w/ veda.

The Jane Cater stuff has several of the herbs/oils used in both the veda bar and the Nature's Gate...so maybe you're overloading there. LOL...maybe you just need a plain ole cheapie and not the fancy stuff to go along w/ it? My IndoPak friends tend to use drugstore stuff and not the $10+ a bottle stuff. Dunno.

As for Vatika, it has several herbs in it which can act as proteins for some people. It has both coconut oil as its base AND henna It also has lemon oil which can be drying for some. In addition, it shares the many of the same herbs the other 3 products have.

 

[ActionActress]

Well in my experience using the Indian herbs it does smooth the cuticle. And maybe that is what is going on with your hair. You see this affect mainly on wet hair. But when it is dry your texture is itself plus shine because of the smooth cuticle. I use henna, brahmi, shikakai(powder, oil and shampoo bar), bringraj,amla, and hibiscus powders. Not all in one paste but at various times and sometimes with some mixed together. In all, it does help to detangle my hair which is what I want and my curls are shiny and my hair/scalp is very healthy.

The main conditioners I use with my hair are the cheap Vo5 (for rinsing the powders out) and Aubrey Organics and when my wallet is in question I go for the Essencia brand (white lotus) or organic Nature Gate conditioner. As long as there are no cones.

My favorite leave-in: Giovanni Direct Leave-in.

 

[jamaraa]

ActionActress I didn't know you were a veda head too! Now we're gonna really be friends.

The Vo5 is a nice basic, esp used as a "rinse" in such cases before a DC. I just wish I knew how much they put of what herbs in these things. When you're mixing the herbs themselves YOU have control of proportions and varities of herbs. Premade products, esp Western ones, make this more complicated.

 

[Computer Blue]

Chagrin Valley Ayurvedic HerbShampooBar:
Ingredients: Saponified oils of olive and rice bran (infused with Ayurvedic herbs Bhringraj, shikakai, hibiscus flowers, amla, tusli, methi (fenugreek), jasmine flowers, yashtimadhu, and neem), coconut, jojoba, castor bean, mango butter, neem oil, and babassu; organic coconut milk; filtered rainwater; organic aloe vera; powdered aritha, bhringraj, shikakai, and amla; essential oils of tulsi, cypress, juniper berry, lavender, lemon, orange, and black pepper; rosemary oil extract.


Don't those chagrin valley bars sometimes require an acidic or acv rinse because of the quality(hardness, etc.?) of the water used with them?
These bars do have a lot going on.

I was this close to ordering one,most the ingredients sound good individually, but I have read that the number/combo of herbs have ramifications in addition to the water issue. There is mad other stuff to consider the effects of for me. Does all of that other stuff really counter potential dryness, etc? At first glance, I thought maybe the other stuff was to counter the effects of the herbs like aritha and shikaikai. I am also weary of anything that might require me to use an acv rinse. I decided to just get the swastik bars to try. Will be watching this thread, because I am still learning and trust jamaraa's insight. She makes a good point that the bars may not really be ayurvedic, which is what I am interested in.

 

[jamaraa]

Chagrin Valley Ayurvedic HerbShampooBar:


Don't those chagrin valley bars sometimes require an acidic or acv rinse because of the quality(hardness, etc.?) of the water used with them?
These bars do have a lot going on.

I was this close to ordering one,most the ingredients sound good individually, but I have read that the number/combo of herbs have ramifications in addition to the water issue. There is mad other stuff to consider the effects of for me. Does all of that other stuff really counter potential dryness, etc? At first glance, I thought maybe the other stuff was to counter the effects of the herbs like aritha and shikaikai. I am also weary of anything that might require me to use an acv rinse. I decided to just get the swastik bars to try. Will be watching this thread, because I am still learning and trust jamaraa's insight. She makes a good point that the bars may not really be ayurvedic, which is what I am interested in.

No some of these things CAUSE dryness. For African textures, I rarely think citrus oils are good for hair. Vatika seems to be OK for most, but other stuff has too much for us. Frankly, I'm not keen on acids being used outright even tho many peole have success w/ AVC rinses. That's just my poisiiton on the matter.

Oh my...this post is SO informative and I thank you for it. If this interacts badly w/ hard water AND requires and avc/acid rinse, forget it IMHO! Too much trouble for my money. I'm troubled by the need for EXTRA acid considering that both the bar and the vatika have citrus oils.

Swastik is a GREAT bar for the money (about $2) BUT you have to REALLY DC w/ this bar cuz it strips the hair. That's what shikakai does and that's what you want, in addition to the other growth propeties the herb has. I do use it "as needed" not everytime I wash and immediately afterwards put a heavy duty DC on w/ minimal manipulation. IOW, put on you DC and do NOTHING to your hair until it's fully covered w/ rich condish. Don't worry, it won't leave you w/ dryness if you do it this way.

So much help you are (hugs)...I'm gonna warn another sistah off this bar. LOL...it's great to save money when you can.

 

[jamaraa]

Two cheap but VERY good Indo Pak made bars are Swatisk (mentioned above) Nimal Aritha Soap. If you know little about the raw herbs and/or are uncomfortable dealing w/ whole or powdered sopanuts (ie aritha/reetha)...the bars are the way tp go. They're about $2 or so a piece.

 

[kasey]

I found half bags of shikakai, amla and neem powders last week in my stash and, after reading some LHCF threads, may revisit Ayurveda. What do you ladies think of the Chandrika bar? I saw it yesterday at a co-op in my area, but didn't take a closer look. Thanks. --c

 

[jamaraa]

Is the ayurvedic method supposed to kind of straighten out your hair? Was it supposed to be soft but frizzy? What did I do wrong? Maybe it just didn't like the poo bar...

Dabur Vatika Hair Oil:

Ingredients: Coconut oil, Neem Leaves, Brahmi, Amla, Harar, Bahera, Kapurkachri, Henna, DM water, Cow milk, Rosemary oil, Lemon oil, Perfume, Antioxidant - Tert. butyl hydroquinone​

Ok, now these two issues....the Vatika has quinine in it. I use this oil myself sometimes and I know that quinine is quite good for the hair, but what else it's used in combo w/ can have some strange effects. Quinine is rarely used in Western products any more tho it was in the past (tho I know of a contemporary hair/skin line that does...I forget the name at the mo). People also rinse in soda water for the quinine (soda water has minute amounts). Be careful w/ quinine and what you combine a product that has it w/ other products. (I have to look up the specifics about what quinine does cuz I forget at the mo. LOL...it's never been an issue for me, so I just have "need-to-know" basic info off the top of my head).

As for the straighteness issue, le sigh....many vedic products WILL gradually and slightly loosen your curl pattern, but none of them will straighten hair, esp not most African textures, no matter how long you use it. If any major straightening happens, it'll be someone on Andre's 2a-3a range, past that, I highly doubt it. Many East Africans and Arabs get noticable straightness because their hair is straighter to start w/ than most African textures, esp anything in Andre's 4s.

The most you can realistically expect from vedic products alone*, IMHO, is your hair getting gradually less tightly coiled and easier to conventionally comb/brush w/o breakage. More manipulation is possible w/ less chance of breakage, IMHO....but there are still limits even here. Your hair will be both strong and soft if you're doing it right (that's the goal ), but you hair will not be noticably straight as in anything like relaxed, texlaxed, texturized, or even blow dried (which is FAR less straightness than either a hot comb or flat iron).

IOW, you will still be a visible "Andre 4", but w/ stronger, darker, and hair that looks very healthy. Straight...nope!

*You can only have str8 hair on most low 3- any 4 textures by the means we all know well. No herb can do it alone! If they claim an herb can, they have chemicals in w/ those herbs! The same is true for the elusive "curl definition" on 4 textures. Not happenin' Captn

 

[jamaraa]

I found half bags of shikakai, amla and neem powders last week in my stash and, after reading some LHCF threads, may revisit Ayurveda. What do you ladies think of the Chandrika bar? I saw it yesterday at a co-op in my area, but didn't take a closer look. Thanks. --c

What are the main herbs in this bar? Is it for face or body or both? I've seen them, but never bought. More info anyone?

 

[Computer Blue]

No some of these things CAUSE dryness. For African textures, I rarely think citrus oils are good for hair. Vatika seems to be OK for most, but other stuff has too much for us.

I agree. Outside of vatika, citrus oils are a for me. I always remind myself that things may be originally tended for those that produce way more oil naturally.

Oh my...this post is SO informative and I thank you for it. If this interacts badly w/ hard water AND requires and avc/acid rinse, forget it IMHO! Too much trouble for my money. I'm troubled by the need for EXTRA acid considering that both the bar and the vatika have citrus oils.

at the bolded. and the aritha, shikaikai, etc..... sounds like the making of an "interesting" experience for me. I'll pass. I am truly interested only in the time tested stuff (truly ayurvedic) and even then, I have to consider how my hair will react. Brahmi& bhringraj in paste form act like straight up protein on me.



Swastik is a GREAT bar for the money (about $2) BUT you have to REALLY DC w/ this bar cuz it strips the hair. That's what shikakai does and that's what you want, in addition to the other growth propeties the herb has. I do use it "as needed" not everytime I wash and immediately afterwards put a heavy duty DC on w/ minimal manipulation. IOW, put on you DC and do NOTHING to your hair until it's fully covered w/ rich condish. Don't worry, it won't leave you w/ dryness if you do it this way.

Thanks for the tips. I am trying it in a few weeks. Taking a break from straightening and want to make sure all of the cones are out of my hair. My hair does markedly react to anything strengthing so I planned to be oiled up good and I will have the heavy duty dc on deck. I always saturate anyway, but I will remember especially to watch the manipulation.

So much help you are (hugs)...I'm gonna warn another sistah off this bar. LOL...it's great to save money when you can.

(hugs) back to you! Something in my mind said "don't do it" with this bar. I "don't need no excitement" with my hair


ETA I hope the marigold and jaswand make the bar "milder"

 

[zenith]

I found half bags of shikakai, amla and neem powders last week in my stash and, after reading some LHCF threads, may revisit Ayurveda. What do you ladies think of the Chandrika bar? I saw it yesterday at a co-op in my area, but didn't take a closer look. Thanks. --c

I use it as my body soap instead of using regular commercial soap. I changed to Chandrika soap after i suffered a serious heat rash over the summer and i have never looked back.

 

[kasey]

Thanks Zenith! It seems to have very powerful cleansing action. What is it that you prefer about the soap? Also, I found a thread on using Chandrika it as a shampoo at TLHC.

http://www.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=21881

 

[CaliDiamond]

Two cheap but VERY good Indo Pak made bars are Swatisk (mentioned above) Nimal Aritha Soap. If you know little about the raw herbs and/or are uncomfortable dealing w/ whole or powdered sopanuts (ie aritha/reetha)...the bars are the way tp go. They're about $2 or so a piece.

Thank you for the tip Jamaraa! I ordered and tried the Chagrin Valley veda bar yesterday for the first time and it made my hair hard and compacted with all of the oils and butters. How long have you been following a veda regimen?

 

[Computer Blue]

I found half bags of shikakai, amla and neem powders last week in my stash and, after reading some LHCF threads, may revisit Ayurveda. What do you ladies think of the Chandrika bar? I saw it yesterday at a co-op in my area, but didn't take a closer look. Thanks. --c

I use and like chandrika on my body. I have used chandrika sandal on my face. A little leary of using it on my hair I couldn't find sufficient reviews for it as a shampoo. Off to read the LHC thread

 

[jamaraa]

Thank you for the tip Jamaraa! I ordered and tried the Chagrin Valley veda bar yesterday for the first time and it made my hair hard and compacted with all of the oils and butters. How long have you been following a veda regimen?

Around 15 years and some change or so w/ Veda specifially, I slowly started to incorporate products. I started w/ oils and I always advise people to start there. After all, an oil is minimal risk all around. LOL...I don't bandwagon, if you wanna know the full truth of it.

 

[jamaraa]

Thank you for the tip Jamaraa! I ordered and tried the Chagrin Valley veda bar yesterday for the first time and it made my hair hard and compacted with all of the oils and butters. How long have you been following a veda regimen?

I'm sorry about the bar hon, but you win some and lose some when you're trying a product. shrug At least it was just a bar of soap. People on here do FAR more extreme/expensive things and don't have quittin' sense either. At least you knew right away something was wrong and made a logical deduction. Just use it for washing out clothes or something. LOL If it did that to your hair, don't risk it on your body, I say.

 

[jamaraa]

Here's a non vedic soap suggestion that can be used as both hair bar, facil bar, or body soap. Grandpas Pine Tar Wonder Soap. Skip the shampoo version for hair and just use the bar itself. They have many formulas, but the original is pine tar. I sometimes use this bar all over for the benefits of pine tar which is a North American herbal tradition. It's wonderful stuff! (I love the smell even if others don't) It works fine w/ vedic products for me.

Just another suggestion.

 

[jamaraa]

(hugs) back to you! Something in my mind said "don't do it" with this bar. I "don't need no excitement" with my hair


ETA I hope the marigold and jaswand make the bar "milder"

Marigold (aka calendula)...oh my. I avoid that one (and chamomile)....I ain't no blonde and there are better herbs to be had for my black (color) hair. I want it to stay BLACK! Marigold is wonderful on your body tho...on hair, not for this sistah!

Jaswand isn't a herb I've used nor is it commonly available in Indian stores (in my area) as a raw herb. This makes me a touch leery cuz many times Indian stores (even ones that specialize in herbs) they're funny about certain herbs being readily available to non Vedic docs and/or peeps who don't know. Sometimes you gotta ask, it's behind the counter. I need to add that one to my research list.

 

[kasey]

Okay ladies, Chandrika is a skin care soap. The next time I see it I'm going to try it. Meanwhile, the company has a shampoo that features amla, neem, tulsi and henna.

http://www.chandrikasoaps.com/ChandV01/products/

 

[Computer Blue]

Marigold (aka calendula)...oh my. I avoid that one (and chamomile)....I ain't no blonde and there are better herbs to be had for my black (color) hair. I want it to stay BLACK! Marigold is wonderful on your body tho...on hair, not for this sistah!

Jaswand isn't a herb I've used nor is it commonly available in Indian stores (in my area) as a raw herb. This makes me a touch leery cuz many times Indian stores (even ones that specialize in herbs) they're funny about certain herbs being readily available to non Vedic docs and/or peeps who don't know. Sometimes you gotta ask, it's behind the counter. I need to add that one to my research list.

I've always seen jaswand said be another word for hibiscus which my hair loves, so I considered it safe. I hope they mean hibiscus. It does enhance the reddish tones in my hair. So yeah I can see the concern in maintaining black hair. I always had a softening result with calendula. Never noticed a difference in color when using this. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the next time I feel like experimenting. Thanks again for the insight.

 

[jamaraa]

[quote Tranz] I agree. Outside of vatika, citrus oils are a for me. I always remind myself that things may be originally tended for those that produce way more oil naturally. [/quote][/I]

You're ? absolutely right. Citrons, oils or juices, can be highly drying for all hair, but African textures which already incline to dryness? Umm...do I have to say more

I'm troubled by the need for EXTRA acid considering that both the bar and the vatika have citrus oils.

at the bolded. and the aritha, shikaikai, etc..... sounds like the making of an "interesting" experience for me. I'll pass. I am truly interested only in the time tested stuff (truly ayurvedic) and even then, I have to consider how my hair will react. Brahmi& bhringraj in paste form act like straight up protein on me.

Yup, the herbs themselves CAN be quite harsh if you don't know your "dosage" in any real quanities (say .5 oz+) as well as in combo. Bhringraj is wonderful, but I like it better as an infused oil. As for brahmi, I don't use it raw except in henna mixes. I just buy good old Ramthrith's and call it a day wrt an oil of it.

Thanks for the tips. I am trying it in a few weeks. Taking a break from straightening and want to make sure all of the cones are out of my hair. My hair does markedly react to anything strengthing so I planned to be oiled up good and I will have the heavy duty dc on deck. I always saturate anyway, but I will remember especially to watch the manipulation.

Pre oiling is a nice way to use the raw herbs as teas, masks, or pastes. This will help African textures who prefer a more direct use of the herbs.

 

[jamaraa]

I've always seen jaswand said be another word for hibiscus which my hair loves, so I considered it safe. I hope they mean hibiscus. It does enhance the reddish tones in my hair. So yeah I can see the concern in maintaining black hair. I always had a softening result with calendula. Never noticed a difference in color when using this. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the next time I feel like experimenting. Thanks again for the insight.

That's right...I forgot the word. Doh! So many herbs have diff names in diff Indian languages. Yeah that's fine and I don't think it imparts color per se, but it's supposed to be moisturizing and I think it is since I have no dryness from my henning.. I add it to my henna @ 1/4 tsp. I've never used more than this.

You can use the marigold stuff w/o color issues as long as you don't use it too often, IMHO. If you want your reddish tones to come forward, it's actually the ticket for you.

 

[jamaraa]

Okay ladies, Chandrika is a skin care soap. The next time I see it I'm going to try it. Meanwhile, the company has a shampoo that features amla, neem, tulsi and henna.

http://www.chandrikasoaps.com/ChandV01/products/

I don't understand why henna would be in a body bar? look:

Then there's the tulsi (which is (holy) basil)...don't know what that's for either.

 

[poookie]

i use the chandrika soap instead of a body wash! it's really nice. after using this, i don't feel like i need to put on lotion afterwards, like i would if i used a body wash with sulfates.
tulsi helps to remove excess oil in from skin (i think) and gives it a matte complexion.
henna extract probably helps to even the skin tone?

 

[kasey]

I don't understand why henna would be in a body bar? look:

Actually Jam, amla, neem, tulsi and henna are the ingredients in the shampoo called Sidha. Has anyone used this?

There are three different Chandrika soaps. They all look like good face and body care soaps.
http://www.chandrikasoaps.com/ChandV01/products/

 

[*Muffin*]

This is just my opinion, but I think it's the nature's gate conditioner that did it . I used natures gate before and it left my hair feeling weird. But I could be wrong. I love chagrin valley's shampoo bars, though I never tried the ayurvedic one, and I've also used the vatika oil before, and I liked it. But then again, I'm a relaxed head so I didn't notice any change in texture.

 

[Computer Blue]

You're ? absolutely right. Citrons, oils or juices, can be highly drying for all hair, but African textures which already incline to dryness? Umm...do I have to say more
NOPE!!!
I'm troubled by the need for EXTRA acid considering that both the bar and the vatika have citrus oils.




Yup, the herbs themselves CAN be quite harsh if you don't know your "dosage" in any real quanities (say .5 oz+) as well as in combo. Bhringraj is wonderful, but I like it better as an infused oil. As for brahmi, I don't use it raw except in henna mixes. I just buy good old Ramthrith's and call it a day wrt an oil of it.

I think the maka/brahmi works best for me in oil form as well.
I love ramtirth brahmi, I have coconut based, but for my dosha(kapha-pitta) I will use the sesame from now on. It has given a couple of headaches. This is the first cooling oil that did that. Makes me pause and be more conscious of my dosha in selecting pdts. I see its easy to go too far.
[/QUOTE]

That's right...I forgot the word. Doh! So many herbs have diff names in diff Indian languages.

You can use the marigold stuff w/o color issues as long as you don't use it too often, IMHO. If you want your reddish tones to come forward, it's actually the ticket for you.

cool!

I agree with the poster who said it may be the nature's gate also. I have experienced an interesting feeling after using them before. If you are going to use the bar you might want to concentrate on using your best bonafide moisturizing(protein free?) dc with it and keep the rest simple (maybe non ayurvedic) to avoid overload.That would be my advice. Your natural hair is so much more stronger than your relaxed hair was and maybe too many strengthening things at once.

 

[jamaraa]

Actually Jam, amla, neem, tulsi and henna are the ingredients in the shampoo called Sidha. Has anyone used this?

There are three different Chandrika soaps. They all look like good face and body care soaps.
http://www.chandrikasoaps.com/ChandV01/products/

I have only tried one Indian liquid shampoo and that was Hesh's Shakakai. I bought it years ago, put it somewhere, forgot about it, and recently rediscovered it. It's nice, but I tend to prefer Western shampoos...usually very expensive or very cheap.