4A vs. 4B

[Kamilah]

I don't understand how/why so many threads make reference to these two hairtypes as if they are so similar. Perhaps I am an EXTREME 4A...I mean my naps grow in spirals and knot up in spirals and laugh a raucous laugh at combs. This seems soo different from just think "kinky" 4B hair (which I would imagine being much easier to handle).

The reason I ask is b/c of that thread about 4a/4b's stretching relaxers. I mean, I could see that for 4b's...but never in a million years for 4a!

Am I missing something? Perhaps I don't have a good understanding of the hair types?

Just curious

 

[CAPlush]

Well, for me, I have both types on my head, so whatever I do for the 4a hair needs to work for the 4b hair too, or vice versa. They aren't interchangeable though, I agree with you about that.

 

[InnerSoul]

this is what is so cool about our hair. I have more than one type of hair on my head as well. I am 3c-nape/4a-crown.. I say I am 4a because my pattern is not z shaped formation like described in Andre Walker's "Andre talks hair" book. 4a has more moisture than that of 4b according to his book. The nape of my hair is a totally different texture than that of my crown. My nape is a more looser wave pattern with even more moisture.

But I still have to do the same treatment and care to both types on my head regardless

 

[Kamilah]

OH SNAP! So I googled this Andre Walker hair type thing and found this:

"The longer the hair is the more defined the curl. Then, there is type 3B hair which has a medium amount of curl to tight corkscrews. It's not unusual to see a mixture of these types existing on the same head. Curly hair usually consists of a combination of textures, with the crown being the curliest part. Lastly there is a type 3C, is hair type that is not in Andre Walker’s book, but many people suggest that it should be. This type of hair can be described as tight curls in corkscrews. The curls can be either kinky, or very tightly curled, with lots and lots of strands densely packed together. "
​

Perhaps, then, I am mistaken and I am really a 3C? Or is 3C just another name for 4A's who didn't want to be 4's?

 

[InnerSoul]

OH SNAP! So I googled this Andre Walker hair type thing and found this:

"The longer the hair is the more defined the curl. Then, there is type 3B hair which has a medium amount of curl to tight corkscrews. It's not unusual to see a mixture of these types existing on the same head. Curly hair usually consists of a combination of textures, with the crown being the curliest part. Lastly there is a type 3C, is hair type that is not in Andre Walker’s book, but many people suggest that it should be. This type of hair can be described as tight curls in corkscrews. The curls can be either kinky, or very tightly curled, with lots and lots of strands densely packed together. " ​

Perhaps, then, I am mistaken and I am really a 3C? Or is 3C just another name for 4A's who didn't want to be 4's?

Andre doesnt' mention 3c in his book. but as loosely curled(finer than that of 4a)for me anyways as the back of my nape is it would have to classify under that description of 3's and not the 4's.. maybe 3b is 3c . The more we keep thinking about it.. the more confusing it is. I definitely love the thickness and fullness of my 4a texture (crown) and wouldn't have it any other way

 

[Bouncy Curls]

It's always been very confusing to me so I quit typing my hair. But if I had to type it I would say 4a because it's never dry (I don't use moisturizer) and the curls are not Z shaped. But I know for sure it is not 3C

 

[JustKiya]

I have 3c, 4a and 4b hair on my head.

The 3c hair is loose curls - they almost 'wave' rather than forming the tiny tight curls of the 4type hair. There is a member here - her avatar pic is the back of her head, and she has these GORGEOUS black curls that drop from her nape - that's my 3c hair. It doesn't hold a twist for ANYTHING without copious amounts of gel, and it takes the longest to loc. It is very fine, silky, and smooth. (Nape & Hairline)

The 4a hair is like tiny pensprings - they form PERFECT circles when shed, and coil up together in bunchs of 20-40 strands of hair. It is the part of my hair that if I wanted curls to 'pop' in - they would. The strands are about average - fine strands, silky & smooth if properly moisturized. It makes PERFECT two strand twists, and locs in about average time. (90% of my head)

The 4b hair is - curly - but it doesn't do the perfect pensprings thing, and it's MUCH drier than the 4a hair. It's slightly rougher in texture, and the strands themselves are thicker than the 4a strands. The strands will be smooth and soft if my hair is ULTRA moisturized - otherwise, it's rough - this is the section of my hair that almost ALWAYS feels dry. It locs in about 2.5 seconds flat, and forms okay twists - they tend to be much shorter because there is more shrinkage. (Over left ear)

That's how I break it down.........

 

[deltagyrl]

To be honest I don't know WHAT type I am. I picked 4B just because......
None of the descriptions seem to fit me so maybe I'll just say I'm a 5C (for confused)...

 

[destiny616]

I don't understand how/why so many threads make reference to these two hairtypes as if they are so similar.

because alot of people have a combination of both 4A/4b textures on their head instead having just one type

 

[lil'paw]

I got my hair done in comb twists yesterday by a natural haircare stylist. She told me that my hair around the back and sides were curlier, thicker and retained more moisture. She said the top of my head has a slightly different texture, is more dry than the rest of my head and has a z pattern(this is also where my hair is thinning..intresting). So I figure, the back and the sides 4a and the top 4b?

 

[pattycake0701]

I don't understand how/why so many threads make reference to these two hairtypes as if they are so similar. Perhaps I am an EXTREME 4A...I mean my naps grow in spirals and knot up in spirals and laugh a raucous laugh at combs. This seems soo different from just think "kinky" 4B hair (which I would imagine being much easier to handle).

The reason I ask is b/c of that thread about 4a/4b's stretching relaxers. I mean, I could see that for 4b's...but never in a million years for 4a!

Am I missing something? Perhaps I don't have a good understanding of the hair types?

Just curious

This describes my hair. I think I'm mainly 4a and even though I'm learning to love my hair as is, I think it would be so much easier to have 4b. Them little tiny pinsprings, corkscrews and spirals are no joke. Sometimes I try to stretch them and the bad boys spring right back up .

 

[lala]

This hair typing thing is really difficult to determine IMO. After viewing the pics of others, I selected 4A as my type.

But my hair behaves differently than some of the folks that say they're 4A. So maybe there are variations within the 4A type -- IDK.

I just recently retouched after 4 months. I had a lot of new growth but it wasn't unmanageable b/c I combed it daily. My edges don't stand up they lay down and just wave. I probably could have gone another few weeks w/o retouching, but my hair was so big and I knew my hair stylist wouldn't appreciate it.

However, I have kinky wavy hair, I don't have the tight curls that have been described for 4A's erplexed . It really doesn't matter I guess...

 

[LocksOfLuV]

OH SNAP! So I googled this Andre Walker hair type thing and found this:

"The longer the hair is the more defined the curl. Then, there is type 3B hair which has a medium amount of curl to tight corkscrews. It's not unusual to see a mixture of these types existing on the same head. Curly hair usually consists of a combination of textures, with the crown being the curliest part. Lastly there is a type 3C, is hair type that is not in Andre Walker’s book, but many people suggest that it should be. This type of hair can be described as tight curls in corkscrews. The curls can be either kinky, or very tightly curled, with lots and lots of strands densely packed together. " ​

Perhaps, then, I am mistaken and I am really a 3C? Or is 3C just another name for 4A's who didn't want to be 4's?

That section that you posted here sounds exactly like my hair. I have densely packed tiny spiral curls and 4b hair at the (top) point of my head. I consider it a 4a though because it isn't somewhat silky like most type 3s I know. But if I let it grow out it would def. be curls.

 

[glamazon386]

I don't understand how/why so many threads make reference to these two hairtypes as if they are so similar. Perhaps I am an EXTREME 4A...I mean my naps grow in spirals and knot up in spirals and laugh a raucous laugh at combs. This seems soo different from just think "kinky" 4B hair (which I would imagine being much easier to handle).

The reason I ask is b/c of that thread about 4a/4b's stretching relaxers. I mean, I could see that for 4b's...but never in a million years for 4a!

Am I missing something? Perhaps I don't have a good understanding of the hair types?

Just curious

Maybe. IDK. I'm a 4a and never had problems stretching relaxers. I don't have any problems with tangling or manageability. I mean the fact that I was a broke college student was what made me stretch my relaxers to 12-16 weeks. I didn't even know that it was something people did on purpose until I found this board 2 years after I started doing it. I eventually made it to 6 months twice and then decided to chop and be natural. Oh yeah my hair is thin. And it's not really densely packed. So that might make a difference. I do agree that there are variations within each hair type group. My 4a is different from some of the 4as on this board. But still similar enough to be in the same group.

 

[janeemat]

Yes, confusing. I just know that I'm not a 1, 2, or 3. I'm a 4 whatever the kinkyest/nappest type is. Selah!

 

[Imani]

I don't understand how/why so many threads make reference to these two hairtypes as if they are so similar. Perhaps I am an EXTREME 4A...I mean my naps grow in spirals and knot up in spirals and laugh a raucous laugh at combs. This seems soo different from just think "kinky" 4B hair (which I would imagine being much easier to handle).

The reason I ask is b/c of that thread about 4a/4b's stretching relaxers. I mean, I could see that for 4b's...but never in a million years for 4a!

Am I missing something? Perhaps I don't have a good understanding of the hair types?

Just curious

I guess the grass always seems greener from the other side. i think that all of my hair is 4b (there is nothing on my head that resembles a spiral curl) and i figured 4a hair would be easier to handle. i am in a constant battle with dryness and its very fragile and will break over the tiniest little mishap.

there is also a wide spectrum of 4b. i see folk on the board with 4b hair and i'm like dang, why doesn't my 4b hair look that good? even on my own head, the top part which is thicker with a very loose softer zig zag gives me much less trouble than the rest of my hair.

 

[brownsugarflyygirl]

The 4a hair is like tiny pensprings - they form PERFECT circles when shed,

Haha...mine too after washing and detangling...I have little circles of shed hair on my counter. My coils have a slightly greater circumference than pensprings but that is such an apt description.

 

[texasgrl]

I think my hair is 4..............B? Just cause its always been so course dry and difficult to deal with. Now that I take care of it I find that it is silky and moist and so I am confused maybe I should take some pics of the newgrowth and post them. Does anyone out there think they can help me?

 

[melodee]

This is a good discussion. I resist typing my hair because there are so many variations (and I've viewed many of these online in albums) that I don't think a 3c,4a or 4b is enough to describe the softness and circumference of the curl/coil.

But I know that I have different textures on one head. I have spirally curls in the back a wavy pattern up top and a much tighter pattern on both sides of my head. After I wash it, it has that split or flat top afro/puff effect, where the sides have volume, but not the top.

 

[plainj]

I have 3c, 4a and 4b hair on my head.

The 3c hair is loose curls - they almost 'wave' rather than forming the tiny tight curls of the 4type hair. There is a member here - her avatar pic is the back of her head, and she has these GORGEOUS black curls that drop from her nape - that's my 3c hair. It doesn't hold a twist for ANYTHING without copious amounts of gel, and it takes the longest to loc. It is very fine, silky, and smooth. (Nape & Hairline)

The 4a hair is like tiny pensprings - they form PERFECT circles when shed, and coil up together in bunchs of 20-40 strands of hair. It is the part of my hair that if I wanted curls to 'pop' in - they would. The strands are about average - fine strands, silky & smooth if properly moisturized. It makes PERFECT two strand twists, and locs in about average time. (90% of my head)

The 4b hair is - curly - but it doesn't do the perfect pensprings thing, and it's MUCH drier than the 4a hair. It's slightly rougher in texture, and the strands themselves are thicker than the 4a strands. The strands will be smooth and soft if my hair is ULTRA moisturized - otherwise, it's rough - this is the section of my hair that almost ALWAYS feels dry. It locs in about 2.5 seconds flat, and forms okay twists - they tend to be much shorter because there is more shrinkage. (Over left ear)

That's how I break it down.........

I think this description is right on. 4a describes my dh's hair. His hair is more cottony and softer in texture. 4b describes me and dd's hair altho she has pensprings and zigzags on one strand! Our hair is much coarser, kinkier and drier. I think both hair types are equally tough to deal with.

 

[poetist]

I guess the grass always seems greener from the other side. i think that all of my hair is 4b (there is nothing on my head that resembles a spiral curl) and i figured 4a hair would be easier to handle.

I agree with Imani and the OP. OP, you're right - 4A and 4B are quite different. When I wash my 4B hair and am trying to comb it out and braid it...I CANNOT fathom that God would have created a more difficult hair type to manage. I seriously go to war with my hair. Since 4a has a looser curl pattern, I figured it was easier to handle. I still can't imagine how it would be more difficult to manage. But if so, my prayers are with you

 

[Cheleigh]

IMO 4a & 4b are similar. Technically, the only difference between the two is curl pattern. 4a hair strands generally have tight s-shaped strands and often clump to form what people would consider "curls" and "coils" in the hair, although Andre mentions nothing about visible curls as a determinant. 4b hair allegedly does not--it zig-zags. I have found that 4b curl patterns can also be kinky straight intstead of zag (mine does).

Curl patterns are separate from hair texture and separate again from hair density, which the latter two IME is what better determines best products, techniques, etc.

My hair strands are (mostly) fine to medium with (mostly) medium to high density. My texture is kinky & cottony (and spongy in a few places). Andre threw most of the kinky textured hair into type 4 (which contradicts the theory that the numbers only represent curl patterns, but I digress). I primarily consider myself to be a 4a, but I could stretch relaxers for about 4 months because I have thin hair with medium density. I usually would retouch before my curl pattern was a factor. I will say that as a natural, my straight 4b hair is easiest to detangle, so it really illustrates that texture and density play a huge part in determining whether some people's hair can be easier/more difficult to retain moisture, to detangle, to stretch, etc.

Also, there are some people who have super tight curly hair strands (super tight O strands) yet their hair strands don't clump and I have no clue whether Andre expected those people to type themselves as 4a or 4b. I would imagine that they are also 4a, just without obvious curls/coils, but probably type themselves as 4b, which adds to the confusion.

 

[Victorian]

Hair types are meant to be ranges of curl size, not just one curl size/texture. Just because your hair doesn't look or behave exactly like someone else's doesn't mean you don't both have hair that falls into the same category. I think that's the biggest mistake people make when trying to understand hair types, and that's what gets them all confused. Certain categories tend to have similar characteristics (tending to be dry or having a "silky" feeling), but those characteristics aren't necessarily what defines that hair type. The amount of curl is what defines the hair type.


To the OP: I've actually had that same thought before while I was battling knots. Like, "Wouldn't it be easier if my hair didn't coil up??" It's hard to say, though, because a lot of 4b's tend to have more problems with dryness. In the end you just gotta work with what you have

 

[GoldenBreeze]

I have 3c, 4a and 4b hair on my head.

The 3c hair is loose curls - they almost 'wave' rather than forming the tiny tight curls of the 4type hair. There is a member here - her avatar pic is the back of her head, and she has these GORGEOUS black curls that drop from her nape - that's my 3c hair. It doesn't hold a twist for ANYTHING without copious amounts of gel, and it takes the longest to loc. It is very fine, silky, and smooth. (Nape & Hairline)

The 4a hair is like tiny pensprings - they form PERFECT circles when shed, and coil up together in bunchs of 20-40 strands of hair. It is the part of my hair that if I wanted curls to 'pop' in - they would. The strands are about average - fine strands, silky & smooth if properly moisturized. It makes PERFECT two strand twists, and locs in about average time. (90% of my head)

The 4b hair is - curly - but it doesn't do the perfect pensprings thing, and it's MUCH drier than the 4a hair. It's slightly rougher in texture, and the strands themselves are thicker than the 4a strands. The strands will be smooth and soft if my hair is ULTRA moisturized - otherwise, it's rough - this is the section of my hair that almost ALWAYS feels dry. It locs in about 2.5 seconds flat, and forms okay twists - they tend to be much shorter because there is more shrinkage. (Over left ear)

That's how I break it down.........

My hair has all three types 3c, 4a, 4b, also. They are placed differently though. My 3c is in the middle from temple to temple, and at the center nape. When my hair is wet I look like bozo the clown, because my sides (4a) are sticking out and the center is flat. The middle of my head, in about a 3 inch circle, is 4b. It makes for an interesting hair cair regimen.

 

[LocksOfLuV]

TSmith,

You hair looks like a 4a or 3c. It is very soft. But I think I would have to see just a liiiiitttle bit more newgrowth. I am no expert at all though.

Kinda OT-I LOVE LOVE LOVE my bun covers too. I ordered mines from a lady on Ebay and I wear mines everyday too. But mines are crocheted a little bit tighter so you can't see the baggy at all.

 

[MzOptimistic]

TSmith,

You hair looks like a 4a or 3c. It is very soft. But I think I would have to see just a liiiiitttle bit more newgrowth. I am no expert at all though.

Kinda OT-I LOVE LOVE LOVE my bun covers too. I ordered mines from a lady on Ebay and I wear mines everyday too. But mines are crocheted a little bit tighter so you can't see the baggy at all.

I think it's 4a and a few pm's just confirmed it. 3C noooooooo I bought mine from the BSS (the ones that's in my fotki) but I ordered some from ebay too I found some black processing caps that I use now so the baggie will not be seen

 

[Babygurl]

I agree with some of the other ladies, 4a/4b is used together when there is a mixture of both on the bead. I am a 4a with a 4b crown. My crown is the driest spot on my head, and it requires special attention because it really does break easier (it once was only an inch long before taking care of my hair) and has no defined curl pattern which makes my new growth a pain to deal with at times. Those that are saying they are 4a and have no problems stretching, bless you, even my 4a acts up especially when its coils up (tangling) but it is easier to deal with than my crown.

 

[cmw45]

I have no idea...I'm pretty sure that I am 4A...maybe 4B...definitely a 4 though...I've decided that I don't really care...I've learned what my hair needs...and I love it no matter what it is.

 

[ShaniKeys]

this is what is so cool about our hair. I have more than one type of hair on my head as well. I am 3c-nape/4a-crown.. I say I am 4a because my pattern is not z shaped formation like described in Andre Walker's "Andre talks hair" book. 4a has more moisture than that of 4b according to his book. The nape of my hair is a totally different texture than that of my crown. My nape is a more looser wave pattern with even more moisture.

But I still have to do the same treatment and care to both types on my head regardless

Mine's the opposite: my nape is coarser than my crown hair

 

[JustKiya]

Definitely, I find my 4b hair harder to manage than the 4a....
4b - it's dry. Soooo very dry - if I had 4b over my entire head, a JherriCurl might be a good idea, as it's the only way I can think of to keep my hair CONSTANTLY moisturized and damp. And it tangles - despite NOT having a curl pattern, it tangles SOOOO much easier. I can comb it out - perfectly smooth, and leave it loose for 3 minutes without touching it, WITH a leave-in in - and I can't pull a comb through it again because it's knotted up. It's much more fragile - for instance.

This is a picture of my hair in November - the black section on the side? That's my 4b section - it's fragile enough that ALL of the weakend/bleached/ dyed hair has totally broken off. Ignore the black section at the top - I had combed my hair flat out and that's my natural color showing through....

I love my hair, I do - but... *shakes head* I have to handle it gently, lovingly. *LOL* My 4b hair is the Universe's reminder to be gentle with myself.