09/30/2009 on Oprah - Girl Talk About "Good" Hair with Chris Rock

[discodumpling]

I'll be DVRing as well. However i'm clear that no celeb will ever be able to fully explore & explain the beauty & intricacies of our natural hair. I will continue to lead by example.

 

[PinkSkates]

I'll be DVRing as well. However i'm clear that no celeb will ever be able to fully explore & explain the beauty & intricacies of our natural hair. I will continue to lead by example.

ITA discodumpling! It is up to us to spread the word through forums and our hair blogs about "our" natural hair! I shall lead by example.

 

[wontonfm]

I've seen that pic and know the story but I still maintain that she could be relaxed. As I said, my hair would look very much like that but shorter when I was relaxed and I would blow it out. With extremly thick hair, it is possible. Let us not forget the whole " tyra'sgoing natural!" thing a few weeks ago. When I hear her say one way or the other, I'll know for sure.

Okay... I'm switching sides. Did some internet creeping and realized that I (along with others) have been assuming that Oprah is natural. I think the press n curl comment started that. She could be natural, she could be relaxed, she could have little helpers that stretch each individual hair out... doesn't make a difference in my life but I am curious!

 

[chiconya]

This should be very interesting would love to see it.

 

[theprototype]

bumping because i don't want anyone to forget!

 

[Celestial]

I will catch the re-run. I saw the previews and it look good.

 

[Leeda.the.Paladin]

So she is relaxed, according to today's show because she can't "deal with all that". Oh well, it was a good show anyway.

 

[DDTexlaxed]

I almost forgot about this! Thank you! I am definitely going to see Chris Rock's movie. I will prob have to see it alone because my hubby won't be interested! I wonder what Orprah does to get her hair strait!

 

[Mook's hair]

I've seen that Opra pic before and I'm with KCurly, That looks just like my hair when it was relaxed post wash, Dried and pre flat iron. That does not look like natural hair to me.

It's beautiful either way but I just havn't been under the impression that it is unrelaxed.

 

[silvergirl]

i never watch oprah but i liked the show! thanks for the reminder.

 

[Celestial]

Oprah said her natural hair was blown-out. That is how it looks so it could be natural. It didn't look relax at all. My mother hair looks just like that when it is blown out.

 

[JayAnn0513]

I watched the show last night, it was funny and informative. I noticed the whole "white women and their real hair color" thing years ago but never equated it to our cultures love of the relaxer. As Ali said we all just want to be pretty and the "accepted standards" for beautiful hair may vary from culture to culture we all carry baggage because of it.

 

[Linzdoll]

I dunno guys... Chris Rock ... I know they wanted to keep it light-hearted and fun but...I had alot of "Did he just say that?' moments and I had some of those moments for Oprah also...

 

[ceebee3]

Oprah said her natural hair was blown-out. That is how it looks so it could be natural. It didn't look relax at all. My mother hair looks just like that when it is blown out.

She's relaxed now. She said that blown out pic was before she put a relaxer in her hair.

 

[Celestial]

She's relaxed now. She said that blown out pic was before she put a relaxer in her hair.

Yes, that's the one I'm speaking of.

 

[afiya27]

I'm wondering what the purpose of this may be....is it to shows Blacks that natual hair is an alternative (not likely given her demo) OR is it to explain to "other races" the questions they may have? Either way, I think this is regressive. Why should anyone have to explain our hair and the issues surrounding it?

I understand the caution, protectiveness, and concern underlying this comment. The issues surrounding our hair and/or our style choices (chemical vs natural etc.) are very loaded, painful, and sensitive. Most of the sting, of course, derives from the specific ways in which African descended people were “used” in the colonization/globalization process. Obviously, the fact that blackness/Africanness was associated with all things bad/ugly/deserving-to-be-enslaved (as a means of justifying our ancestors’ poor treatment) was not good for perceptions of our hair (neither our own, nor the rest of the world’s).

On another level though, our hair IS different! Even more than dark skin (which is also found among straight haired Australians and Indians), Afro-textured hair is a strong indicator of recent African ancestry (note: many Melanesians also have Afro-hair, but their numbers are fairly low). It’s easy to understand how folks across the globe (especially those who have never been to Africa) could come to take on a mindset expecting that hair “should” look straight/wavy when you consider that ~90% of the human population are, essentially, straight-wavy heads (yes, African descended folk are ~10% in the U.S. AND across the globe—that number seems to be following us). Furthermore, out of the ENTIRE group of hair-growing species (i.e. all mammals), the only non-human species that even comes CLOSE to the range of hair texture variation found among humans is sheep (a.la. their wool), and technically, I suspect that in the wild (i.e. pre-domestication) NO sheep had the wooly hair currently associated with them (i.e. humans bred that into CERTAIN sub-breeds and many breeds still do NOT have wooly hair) …

Basically, I’m trying to say that our hair belongs in a category all its own … Had colonization/enslavement not happened in the way that it did, this fact might have been received differently/more positively today...But, even ignoring history, given the reality that out of 4260 known mammalian (hair-growing) species, 2 (0.05%), humans and sheep, express something approaching tightly coiled hair texture, AND that even WITHIN these species, tightly coiled hair is the less common trait (at least in humans, it’s roughly 10%), it’s UNDERSTANDABLE that folks throughout the world would likely be FIRST ignorant, THEN curious/interested/fascinated (at best) as well … Heck, many of US are kinda mystified by (and ignorant about) our tresses! Each strand seems to have a mind of its own! LOL! You never know what you’re going to get day to day! …

Yes, I acknowledge that in this time/place, given history, many consider Afro-textured hair to be a liability; particularly for women. I also understand that it hurts to talk about this; to revisit our victimization and our resulting vulnerabilities. But IMHO, this process can be very cathartic. First, if we can articulate the pain surrounding this issue, we take away its power over us; PARTICULARLY if we can do so in front of straight-haireds/whites (AND men; black or otherwise). Second, it is NOT our fault that a) our hair is the way that it is, and/or that b) our hair is received by straight-haireds (especially whites) in the negative way that it is. All that is rooted in the past (the evolutionary past and the historical past respectively). We have to let go of the shame. This is who we are...On a certain level, in one fell swoop, by “coming out” about our hair, black women are also making important statements about both concepts/pressures surrounding female beauty, as well as humanity’s relationship with nature. In this sense, by simply publicly embracing/acknowledging our natural selves, we’re also implicitly undermining/thumbing our noses at an industrial system that is exploiting women/humanity, and running nature/our planet’s environment into the ground.

So, all that to say that the topic of Oprah’s show and Chris’s film is quite timely/appropriate IMHO, regardless of whether the spirit is aimed at encouraging/supporting naturals, OR to satisfy the curiosity of "other races"...

I dunno guys... Chris Rock ... I know they wanted to keep it light-hearted and fun but...I had alot of "Did he just say that?' moments and I had some of those moments for Oprah also...

Discussions along these lines will be awkward at first ... Humor might be a good place to start ... Regardless of how it occurs, I think getting it out there is ultimately going to be better for us than bottling it all up inside as our "beauty secrets" and/or taking the world on our shoulders ... Let whites/straight-haireds/men shoulder some of this baggage. Their ancestors were the perpetrators after all. And they've benefited from their ancestors' efforts many-fold. They SHOULD feel a bit bad/guilty, and lay off of us about our hair (and a lot of other things) from time to time ... Heck, maybe some of them might even start going out of their way to LEARN about, APPRECIATE and/or even COMPLEMENT natural heads in place of their typical, non-thinking (or perhaps thinking) M.O. of complementing fresh weave-heads, fresh dyed-heads, and/or fresh permed-heads (to the extent that those looks approximate the straight/wavy-hair 'norms'), and saying little/nothing positive to naturals/B.C.ers ...

 

[afiya27]

So she is relaxed, according to today's show because she can't "deal with all that". Oh well, it was a good show anyway.

Oprah must not know about/have time to watch the naturals on YouTube (and here etc.)! LOL! I have a friend who said the EXACT same thing for YEARS! But once she got online and learned how to tweek her regimen/technique, that issue disappeared, and she’s enjoying her journey towards accepting her natural hair … Mind you, it took her dermatologist warning her that a bald spot that was developing on her front hairline would not grow back and/or would grow larger if she continued to perm to force her to the natural route though ... Maybe, being that Oprah has Andre and his ilk to care for it, her hair hasn’t reached that point? …

On a deeper level though, maybe “can't deal with all that” isn’t just a statement about confronting the "challenging" physical mechanics involved in nurturing/showcasing healthy Afro-textured hair. I mean, given that she IS a billionaire, she could theoretically hire the best natural hair-stylists/experts in the WORLD to handle/teach her “all that” stuff (and/or inspire non-experts in natural Afro hair to BECOME experts for the money!) ... After all, as we're learning here, it doesn't take rocket science to care for our hair ... It just requires a willingness to think outside of the straight/wavy hair-care box …

So this short little comment might actually be saying a mouth-full in terms of revealing where Oprah is on the hair issue. It appears to be evidence that she can't (yet?) "deal with" the BAGGAGE surrounding Afro-hair. Not so much out of fear of rejection by her adoring (mostly white female) fans, but within HERSELF … Oprah, for all of her amazing beauty, growth, strength, and leadership, is at the end of the day, human. These five words, "can't deal with all that", suggest that when the wealthy, dynamic, powerful Oprah Winfrey goes home and looks in the mirror, on some level she may still see that poor little Mississippi girl from the segregated South … Nothing more, nothing less ...

 

[Leeda.the.Paladin]

Oprah must not know about/have time to watch the naturals on YouTube (and here etc.)! LOL! I have a friend who said the EXACT same thing for YEARS! But once she got online and learned how to tweek her regimen/technique, that issue disappeared, and she’s enjoying her journey towards accepting her natural hair … Mind you, it took her dermatologist warning her that a bald spot that was developing on her front hairline would not grow back and/or would grow larger if she continued to perm to force her to the natural route though ... Maybe, being that Oprah has Andre and his ilk to care for it, her hair hasn’t reached that point? …

On a deeper level though, maybe “can't deal with all that” isn’t just a statement about confronting the "challenging" physical mechanics involved in nurturing/showcasing healthy Afro-textured hair. I mean, given that she IS a billionaire, she could theoretically hire the best natural hair-stylists/experts in the WORLD to handle/teach her “all that” stuff (and/or inspire non-experts in natural Afro hair to BECOME experts for the money!) ... After all, as we're learning here, it doesn't take rocket science to care for our hair ... It just requires a willingness to think outside of the straight/wavy hair-care box …

So this short little comment might actually be saying a mouth-full in terms of revealing where Oprah is on the hair issue. It appears to be evidence that she can't (yet?) "deal with" the BAGGAGE surrounding Afro-hair. Not so much out of fear of rejection by her adoring (mostly white female) fans, but within HERSELF … Oprah, for all of her amazing beauty, growth, strength, and leadership, is at the end of the day, human. These five words, "can't deal with all that", suggest that when the wealthy, dynamic, powerful Oprah Winfrey goes home and looks in the mirror, on some level she may still see that poor little Mississippi girl from the segregated South … Nothing more, nothing less ...

I agree with a lot of this. I think she is not even willing to entertain the idea of natural hair. I think she thinks that if you're hair is natural, that it has to be in a short fro. This is an idea that a LOT of people in my area (Mississippi) think. I've had people think that my twist out is my hair texlaxed. They have no idea.

You know, though, I do have to give her credit, because she probably shed a lot of deep south ideals that were ingrained in her at an early age. It's a hard thing to do, especially when you grow up wanting to have long beautiful hair like the people "on tv", as Oprah said she did when she was little.

And also it's just her choice. I still think her hair is very attractive

 

[Leeda.the.Paladin]

Oprah said her natural hair was blown-out. That is how it looks so it could be natural. It didn't look relax at all. My mother hair looks just like that when it is blown out.

I just find it interesting that in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGuC9aLLkpw

She says, "this is me before it gets pressed and curled in the morning". But then on the show, she says this is before putting the perm in. Granted, it could be before both, but one without the other leads to misunderstanding.

I think we have to be careful how we interpret what people say. For one thing, a lot of people do not use the same terms we use on this board. "Natural" hair for one thing...for most of us means untouched by chemicals, for a lot of celebs means their real hair, regardless of chemical alteration. A

Also I think a lot of us (myself included) look up to certain people's hair and want to believe that their hair is real/natural/whatever makes us happy.

I very, very seriously doubt that Oprah was fully natural in that picture. I think I remember in Andre's book that he relaxes it a few times a year (I could be wrong, it's been awhile), so she probably had a lot of new growth. But the way she was talking about her hair in it's "natural state", I do not think she would be fully natural now, especially since she's been growing her hair to that length for years.

I think she just had a lot of new growth from wearing weaves so much.

 

[afiya27]

- One more thing:

As pointed out by Kimmaytube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gblp9Ik8kf8

Chris Rock seems to imply that (black) womens' "hair (appearance) issues" are theirs alone (i.e. that (black) men don't play a major role). Like Kimmaytube, I strongly disagree with this. In fact, this clip from after the Oprah show provides evidence that even OPRAH's hair choices are informed by the opinions of the (black) men in her life ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZMlGxUV-vo&feature=channel

Shame on Bill Cosby IMHO! On some (unconscious?) level, he might have been trying to exert a little power/influence over a (black) WOMAN who had clearly surpassed him (a (black) MAN) career-wise in many respects! On another, having grown up in the extreme racism of 20th century America, maybe Bill just couldn't get past the stigma associated with women with short, Afro-textured hair (it is arguable, after all, that Camille Cosby likely has "good hair" in the traditional sense -- note Kimmay's comments about how this term was used on Oprah's show BTW-- your thoughts?) ... Also, maybe he worried that Oprah would connote "Mammy" imagery BIGTIME if she did that (even more than she already does given her loyal white female following)!

What's up with the whole "it looks good on YOU, but that's because you have the "right" head shape for it" argument anyway? I mean, if you go to the country-sides of sub-Saharan Africa (the (shrinking) last bastions of black existence that are relatively free of aggressive marketing campaigns for black women to buy perms/skin-bleaches etc), where a large %age of women rock TWAs (with simplicity, elegance, and dignity--might I add), you see the WHOLE SPECTRUM of head shapes/sizes! And many of them are just as successfully married/appreciated/loved/respected in their communities as anyone else! ... Point blank. I challenge/question the "head shape/size" argument ...

 

[afiya27]

And also it's just her choice. I still think her hair is very attractive

I agree that choice is important. And in that sense, I would deplore a future that didn't have relaxers/chemicals as options for Afro-textured hair. However, the large proportion of Afro-haireds making this choice, happens to be underscored by a beauty industry that is currently touting straight/wavy hair as the "ideal". I can't help but suspect that this combination of factors (along with the complex history/social dynamics underlying them) is influencing the degree to which chemicals are actually neutral "choices" for many (not necessarily ALL) Afro-textured women ...

 

[Linzdoll]

I understand that it is great to approach a sensitive subject such as this one with humor but the motivation behind the entire movie leaves me wondering. His wife shared the same story when she relayed the same story a while ago but the difference was she seemed so defeated when relaying the story. She said the little girl kept questioning her as if she couldn't convince her that her hair was beautiful.Maybe I"m reading too much into this...

 

[Linzdoll]

It just seemed like some sort of indirect indictment against his wife and her "weave-wearing ilk" to me... which i found quite disturbing.

 

[princessnad]

I'm sorry. I just really like the idea of the movie. Really, what's the point? Hi world, every black woman in Hollywood wears a weave. Ok...

 

[Celestial]

I just find it interesting that in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGuC9aLLkpw

She says, "this is me before it gets pressed and curled in the morning". But then on the show, she says this is before putting the perm in. Granted, it could be before both, but one without the other leads to misunderstanding.

I think we have to be careful how we interpret what people say. For one thing, a lot of people do not use the same terms we use on this board. "Natural" hair for one thing...for most of us means untouched by chemicals, for a lot of celebs means their real hair, regardless of chemical alteration. A

Also I think a lot of us (myself included) look up to certain people's hair and want to believe that their hair is real/natural/whatever makes us happy.

I very, very seriously doubt that Oprah was fully natural in that picture. I think I remember in Andre's book that he relaxes it a few times a year (I could be wrong, it's been awhile), so she probably had a lot of new growth. But the way she was talking about her hair in it's "natural state", I do not think she would be fully natural now, especially since she's been growing her hair to that length for years.

I think she just had a lot of new growth from wearing weaves so much.

I don't think Oprah is natural as of now, but the first pic with her hair big and thick does look naturally blown out. That is how my mother hair looks when it is blown out. Then and again it could have been a texturizer or something else. I just don't find it questionable if it was natural in the first pic.

 

[Celestial]

When the movie comes out I will go to see it. From what I saw on Oprah I didn't see anything offensive. He just did some research to understand why black women are obsess with weaves, "good hair", straight hair, long hair because like he said men don't like weaves or fake hair. Since that is to be true, women are doing these things because THEY like it though men who are looking on the outside may find it silly.

I like that he got opinions of black women and asked why do they treat their hair the way they do and allow them to voice their beliefs and opinions. I will go to see the movie.

 

[JollyGal]

I want to watch this epi. I hope it comes to diva TV in the UK

 

[dynamic1]

I don't wear weave and I never have and I still do not want people running their fingers in my hair (with few exceptions). Why don't people understand this concept. It has nothing to do with wearing tracks. I didn't like the implication during the show...the reason black women don't let you touch their hair is because of weave.

 

[Mizz Diamonds]

I found this Q & A on the movie and Chris Rock said that he didn't have a big focus on Natural Hair in the movie because the footage wasn't "entertaining" enough

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh2bOSRTVZg8do5dRn

there is the link don't know if anyone else has posted it before but yeah... I guess I am going to have to make my own documentary then

 

[mstar]

Yes, I acknowledge that in this time/place, given history, many consider Afro-textured hair to be a liability; particularly for women. I also understand that it hurts to talk about this; to revisit our victimization and our resulting vulnerabilities. But IMHO, this process can be very cathartic. First, if we can articulate the pain surrounding this issue, we take away its power over us; PARTICULARLY if we can do so in front of straight-haireds/whites (AND men; black or otherwise). Second, it is NOT our fault that a) our hair is the way that it is, and/or that b) our hair is received by straight-haireds (especially whites) in the negative way that it is. All that is rooted in the past (the evolutionary past and the historical past respectively). We have to let go of the shame. This is who we are...On a certain level, in one fell swoop, by “coming out” about our hair, black women are also making important statements about both concepts/pressures surrounding female beauty, as well as humanity’s relationship with nature. In this sense, by simply publicly embracing/acknowledging our natural selves, we’re also implicitly undermining/thumbing our noses at an industrial system that is exploiting women/humanity, and running nature/our planet’s environment into the ground.

Beautiful post! I wish Oprah and Chris could've delved a little deeper into the real issues, instead of focusing on the weaves and stuff. I can already tell that people are going to be outraged over the Indian women getting ripped off, and while that's a VERY important issue, I feel that the focus needs to remain on black women right now, since we are also victims in this whole situation. I'm scared that white liberals might start blaming Black women for being responsible for the exploitation of Indian women.

I also agree that Chris was hugely mistaken when he said that black men "don't care" what our hair looks like. In my experience, they care a great deal...and they are just as responsible as everyone else for the propagation of the "good hair" ideal.