Rainbow Dash
Well-Known Member
Guitar, It seems as though you are trying to make hell a good place. If so, you are in deception. The bible describes hell. You will NOT be comforted in hell. It is eternal torment.
JinaRicci;1397179 The image that comes to mind when I hear that [B said:'God is in hell, comforting sinners' [/B]reminds me of God in the fire with Daniel's 3 friends (Daniel 3). These men chose not to bow down to other gods and in doing so chose the punishment of death by fire. Remember the miracle of them not being even touched by the fire and the physical presence of God in the fire with them- visible to everyone. God was physically there refusing to let those who remained true to Him come to harm.
In contrast those who have chosen to be against God have also chosen death by fire and eternal separation from God. In that fire, we know the ones who will physically be there are the devil, and all his workers and followers (Rev 20). Jesus said in Matt 7:23 concerning the judgment day: "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
That indicates separation. Rev 20:9 says that fire will come down from heaven and devour them. The danger I see in thinking that God will physically be there in hell providing comfort makes it seem that it won't be so bad. That much like the 3 Hebrew boys, God will protect. How could it be bad if God is right there? This doesn't communicate the urgent necessity of choosing to follow God.
Where will God physically be? Rev 20:11 says 'On his great white throne' during judgment. And afterwards, regarding the new heaven and the new earth Rev 21:3: "And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God."
Hope that helps the discussion. Happy to chat further.
Guitar, It seems as though you are trying to make hell a good place. If so, you are in deception. The bible describes hell. You will NOT be comforted in hell. It is eternal torment.
How could love be used as torment? Love and torment don't go together, torment comes from the devil. God does not torment, the flames on he'll are described in the bible as literal fire flames in several scriptures. I'm nit trying to be overbearing but I think that right now you probably feel comfortable not believing this. But even if U were right and the flame was possibly Gods love would you be ok with going to hell? I think watching the video could answer some questions for u.
Thanks for the input!!!! But to the bolded, I never once made that claim. I never said He would be providing comfort nor lessening their punishments. I made it very clear that hell is a place for torment. However, the love of G-d can still be there in those punishments. I'm attempting to comprehend some of the depth of His love (which we will not, totally ) because even a parent has to deal punishments to his/her child. They do not escape it but they are still loved. Can a child go astray? Oh, yes. But the parent still loves Hi8s creation. Now that brings me to a questions that kids often ask...does G-d love the devil.
But I certainly comprehend the separation from man and G-d. They do not cross over into heavenly grace. I'm only explaining this again so people do not erroneously think I ever posed that position of "comforts of the final damned." I never said it not did I ever imply it.
One thing about G-d's dwelling place, He still rules the universe and beyond. But this reminds me of the tabernacle in the desert, the temple in Jerusalem and the tabernacle of our church...the divine presence dwelling amongst us. Emanuel... Thanks for that scripture!!!
If you want to realize the depth of His love, it is in what He did on the Cross. What Christ did on the cross demonstrates God's love for mankind. If we receive it, we are saved from eternal damnation. That is love. His love never ends and it is not in Hell. His love is not felt in Hell. It is separation from God. Scripture tells us there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
This is one reason I truly wish that more catholics or orthodox would chime in..they usually do over in the OT only because the punishments that the saved will endure if they die unrepented of any sin (non-grave) are also going to be purified with His fire...and that is explained as G-d's love. We cannot, even as the saved, appear before Him unless all of that sin is repented of. It's forgiven, but we have to actively deal with it. This is the concept of purgatory which protestants do not understand nor believe for the most part. I can understand that, though.
It seems as if you already have a certain belief that you are holding onto, and you are hoping that someone (i.e., a catholic or orthodox) will back you up. You really need to take heed to what has been said, and not take it for granted that there is a pergutory. That's not biblical. That's something that people have contrued only to make themselves feel content about dying. The only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ. I know that saying that may sound offensive, but that is the truth. You can be free of this if you trully turn to God about this.
I think all of the posts on here are because we sincerelycare about you and wouldn't want you to be deceived. Only Satan would want someone to believe something that is not in the Bible. He's the father of all lies.
If you want to realize the depth of His love, it is in what He did on the Cross. What Christ did on the cross demonstrates God's love for mankind. If we receive it, we are saved from eternal damnation. That is love. His love never ends and it is not in Hell. His love is not felt in Hell. It is separation from God. Scripture tells us there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Oh and I comprehend the discussion.
It seems as if you already have a certain belief that you are holding onto, and you are hoping that someone (i.e., a catholic or orthodox) will back you up. You really need to take heed to what has been said, and not take it for granted that there is a pergutory. That's not biblical. That's something that people have contrued only to make themselves feel content about dying. The only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ. I know that saying that may sound offensive, but that is the truth. You can be free of this if you trully turn to God about this. I think all of the posts on here are because we sincerelycare about you and wouldn't want you to be deceived. Only Satan would want someone to believe something that is not in the Bible. He's the father of all lies.
I heard a priest today say that G-d is in hell, loving on the sinners. Doesn't mean they aren't reaping just punishments. I've heard other accounts of the nature of hell such that it's G-d's love that is the flame. Basically, I was mistaken to think that G-d removed His presence away from those in hell. What do you think?
Romans 8:38-39 (KJV)
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Of course, I assumed that this ended when one went to hell. G-d's love is encompassing...even in hell.
.............Believe what you will. In the end, there is abundant grace and I know which side I'm on. I wish you well. You might wish to leave the unfair accusations out and apply true exegesis or apologetics first. Disagreements don't bother me, it's saying someone is deceived because they look deeply into the various meanings of scripture, something that your church has benefited from, directly via the church councils of the early Church Fathers. We all derive from that.
It's the deprivation of...but what about on G-d's side? I sure wished I had stuck around to ask this of the good priest. I wonder what he is taking this from.
What about the source of the fire in hell? That's initially what I thought he was referring to, initially - that of His enduring love despite their just punishments and torments...that, perhaps, their rejection of him will ultimately meet up with that consuming fire of the love they should have accepted but are eternally in opposition to, thus eternal sufferings? I'm trying to figure it out from the tidbit he gave.
For purgatory, we know that it is His love and although they are going through purification, they are not separate from G-d - but it is still unbearable lol.
Deprivation of the Beatific Vision...going to research from that point. Thanks, Galadriel. Which of the early Church Fathers wrote most on hell?
The existence of hell shouldn't lead anyone to believe that God does not have abundant grace. If someone makes their bed in hell, they have received so many chances to come to Him and have refused to do so for whatever reason. In spite of that, He is still full of grace and mercy. You've received plenty of exegesis in this thread, but it seems as if you want believe something other than the truth. Like most people on here, I don't want you to believe a lie and I would hate for anyone else to see this thread and believe that there is a pergutory that they can look forward to for purification rather than rely on the blood of Christ to purify them before it's too late.
I'm not sure why you seem reluctant to seek God about this rather than rely on what others (even those on this board) have said. The little we know (even the little the church fathers knew) cannot compare to God's knowledge. Seek Him. There's no power in the church fathers; the only power comes from Jesus Christ.
I'm not sure why you seem reluctant to seek God about this rather than rely on what others (even those on this board) have said. The little we know (even the little the church fathers knew) cannot compare to God's knowledge. Seek Him. There's no power in the church fathers; the only power comes from Jesus Christ.
but my church and true Christian churches base their faith on belief in Jesus Christ.
There is NO purgatory. That is all a part of a false doctrine. Do not be deceived.
While I may not be doctrinally in agreement with either of you ladies (Guitarhero & Proverbs31woman) or most in this thread, I just want to say that it is truly something to see how our views of Christianity and specifically Christian history can differ...wow. This thread is something else!
Purgatory is the safety net when you die. You don’t go to Hell. You go (to Purgatory) and get things sorted out and finally get to Heaven if you’ve been good. Simply not in the Word of God.
Purgatory is not a place, it's a state. It is Jesus who takes us through purgatory. The cleansing fire of purgatory is the love of God.Those who desire to have their sins purged need to trust Jesus Christ, not a place. The blood of Christ is the only cleansing agent for sin.
"This good news was affirmed by the Lord Jesus with the promise He gave to the repentant thief at Calvary. He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). This habitual sinner did not need a fire to purge his sins.