The afro wins in the interview!

[Crackers Phinn]

I see your point...to an extent. But you touch on, I think, a different issue--whether these hiring folks consider you to be like them socially/culturally or not. I still postulate that if you are a newly minted black with locs but the hiring managers self-identify with you, you will be hired before a newly minted black with or without locs that the hiring manager doesn't self-identify with.

I see what you are saying and will take it a step further. The person in your example with locs was just better skilled at selling themselves than the person without them. You're either born with that talent OR you've been around the block enough times (i.e. are experienced) to gage a person and adjust your personality to fit the audience.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Ok, this is my theory on white people (for the most part or the avg. white person). They want us to assimiliate just enough where they can't see our "full Africaness" but not as much as where they can't tell we aren't black. Our full Africaness scares them, IMO but also being too white, not being to almost tell we are black scares them too. That's just my theory on that. Sorry if it's diffucult to understand.

In my experience, white people don't particularly care whether black people assimilate.

I think that in business, the rule is that the only color that matters is green. If you can demonstrate at an interview in ANY FIELD for ANY JOB that you have a track record of either making or saving an employer money, then you've got a leg up. People buy into the PC nonsense that companies are about people. That's a complete joke. I don't care what the company does, they are about making a profit. As an prospective employee, your goal is to make them believe that you translate into profit. PERIOD.

 

[Country gal]

The world is not fair. The business world, even less so. The choice is to accept that as fact and work within it or be frustrated to the point of insanity.

This is why we need folks to break the stereotypes. Thanks to Martin and other leaders we wouldn't have the luxuries we do now.

 

[Aveena]

Congrats! I can't see the pic though.... I'ld love to see it.

 

[Bunny77]

To paraphrase a white Republican lawyer who heard a black woman say that white folks are more likely to relate to someone who has hair like them: "That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

To continue his statement... "White men do not sit around thinking about what black women do with their hair and whether they look like us or not. At least in my lifetime, I have never heard one white man have a discussion about this."

Dude owned his own firm and was in charge of hiring, btw.

Quote from another white guy with plenty of hiring clout in the advertising industry... I showed him photos of my hair straightened and natural and asked for his opinion on which one I should wear... "The natural. It makes you look sophisticated, educated and real."

Again, I say it's black people making mountains out of molehills. No one is saying that you should pick out your BAA on interview day, we're saying that there is enough evidence out here in non-liberal and liberal states and industries alike to support the idea that natural hair does not stop black folks from getting jobs.

If you personally choose to straighten for an interview because you aren't comfortable wearing your hair natural, then go ahead. Do what's best for you. I personally don't care about someone's choice in hairstyles.

What I do care about is black people putting fear in the hearts of other black people about what the "white man" will do if they see some nappy hair... really, I think deep down that these black folks who are so adamant about it really just hate the idea of other black folks walking around "nappy" and giving away the big secret!

 

[Bunny77]

Finally, someone who understands where I am coming from! *Whew* I felt as I was being bashed for believing the world isn't as liberal as I'd like to believe. Wow, yeah I wish it was that way but it isn't IMO, which is why we still have policies like Affirmative Action in place (minus California and possibly Michigan). I guess there's really no need for that either since people tend to judge on your merit of work and not your physicalities.

Being that I am going to be a new grad in 07 and am 21, I think that I will have to conform until I have enough experience to absolutely demand the money I want. I wasn't trying to discourage anyone from wearing their hair natural, I was just trying to get the opinions to do what was best for me. So, do you.

I also tend to think the black race tends to be more accepting as a whole than our caucasian counterparts being that we know how it feels to be discriminated against, so why would we do that when hiring?

No one is bashing you... but my question is this... you asked for examples and some people are giving theirs and you seem to take issue with the views that contradict what you believe.

I am almost 30 and have been through three job interviews and been offered three jobs (one in not-so-liberal Texas, btw). Others on this board are older than me and say the same thing... so since you, as you mentioned, are still in school and haven't yet started applying for jobs and doing interviews, how can you say you really know the deal about what employers want and don't want?

I'm not saying this to be rude, but I'm just wondering why you are so sure of how employers act when you haven't yet been through this experience? It's like my mom and dad giving my little brother the wrong advice when he was searching for a job (this wasn't related to hair, btw)... they haven't had to interview for anything since 1968... and interview/application processes have changed significantly since then.... my brother was in a standstill until I gave him some tips about job fairs, etc.... and he's starting his new job next Monday! My parents had no clue such things existed.

As you said, in the end you have to do what's best for you, and whatever that is, go for it.

 

[Bunny77]

BTW... sistawithsumthin... forgot to say...

CONGRATULATIONS!

 

[blueabyss333]

Wooo hoo! I'm proud of you for sporting your afro and Congrats on the job!

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Again, I say it's black people making mountains out of molehills. No one is saying that you should pick out your BAA on interview day, we're saying that there is enough evidence out here in non-liberal and liberal states and industries alike to support the idea that natural hair does not stop black folks from getting jobs.

...

What I do care about is black people putting fear in the hearts of other black people about what the "white man" will do if they see some nappy hair... really, I think deep down that these black folks who are so adamant about it really just hate the idea of other black folks walking around "nappy" and giving away the big secret!

We live in a litigious country. People aren't stupid. You would be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find a business owner/decision maker of ANY race (especially white) who is going to admit to discriminating against people for any reason let alone their hair.

That's why I'm always on edge when I see posts here and elsewhere about how 'white people jes luvs our hair'. White people in the workplace with an ounce of self preservation understand that if they say anything that can be taken as offensive to a minority will get their asses handed to them.

 

[sistawithsumthin]

Congrats! I can't see the pic though.... I'ld love to see it.

Thank you! I love my job so far too.

If you go into the photo gallery look under my name then you will find it there. It is the one with me and my husband.

 

[sistawithsumthin]

Thank you too Blueabyss and Bunny!

To be honest I wore the afro more as an experiment for myself than a white or black thing. If someone is prejudice it doesn't matter how you wear your hair.

I wore it more as a okay you doin' the hair thang, I'm over the hump of how will my family and friends react, Am I as strong as I think I am to sport the fro in a situtation where a stranger is going to judge everything about me including my look and still be confident?

I've been telling everyone girl yes you will be cute natural but did I really mean it? Was I truly as accepting of it as I thought I was? Can I still be professional or is this just a fad style?

 

[Bunny77]

We live in a litigious country. People aren't stupid. You would be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find a business owner/decision maker of ANY race (especially white) who is going to admit to discriminating against people for any reason let alone their hair.

That's why I'm always on edge when I see posts here and elsewhere about how 'white people jes luvs our hair'. White people in the workplace with an ounce of self preservation understand that if they say anything that can be taken as offensive to a minority will get their asses handed to them.

I agree 100%! This is why I've never been "impressed" when a white person compliments my hair because I'm sure they'd hate it if they suddenly woke up with my hair type. I've heard white people tell me that my hair was cool and then in the next breath, say they were glad they didn't have it... so no, I definitely don't think that white people "love" black hair, I simply think that most don't care.

However... the quotes I posted came from white men who were not in a position to hire me. I knew them from various networking groups and later went out with them for group dinners and drinks. I wasn't trying to get jobs with these guys (I'm never going into law or advertising), but I presented the question to them because I knew them and knew they wouldn't BS me... I figured that just in case I was living in my own fantasy utopia world about hair, I wanted to know what some folks in hiring positions truly thought about the issue "off the record." I was actually surprised at their responses.

I also posed this question to an Asian woman "off the record" and told her to be 100% honest about whether she would look at a black person differently based on their hair. The Asian woman said that her 60-year-old mother might do so, but she does not. She said she remembered that in one of her intern classes, a brotha with dreads was named the "Intern of the Year" and she didn't remember anyone making a big deal about his hair.

I look at it like this... if you've got what it takes, natural/relaxed/whatever, you'll get the job. If you aren't competitive for the position at all, you won't get it, period... I doubt that a person on the "border" for getting a job will lose out if they chose natural over straight. Sure, it might happen sometimes, but I don't think that straightened hair has all that much power in the majority of cases to sway an interviewer who already doesn't want to hire you.

 

[JewelleNY]

Congratulations chica!!!! You're my new inspiration, (I have a lot nowadays )

I am stretching and thinking about transitioning and am feeling more and more confident about that decision. I get more flack about my hair from my own people AA guys don't really look at me anymore, I only get looks from whites and Latinos. I think we are so hard on ourselves, we are our own worst enemy.

Girl, do you thing and keep us updated and that new job

 

[sistawithsumthin]

Even though I'm married I still notice if someone gives me the second look. I don't get like I used to. Even though I love my natural hair at this stage I don't think I look as attractive as I could. Haven't quite found a style at this length that flatters me.

But anyway the looks I do get are still from AA men. Never really noticed too many white men just maybe here or there. My daughter wears hers naturally also and she just gets it all over the place. Black, white, latin, whatever. I was kind of surprised to hear her say how the boys at school love her hair natural.

 

[chica_canella]

I see your point...to an extent. But you touch on, I think, a different issue--whether these hiring folks consider you to be like them socially/culturally or not. I still postulate that if you are a newly minted black with locs but the hiring managers self-identify with you, you will be hired before a newly minted black with or without locs that the hiring manager doesn't self-identify with.

For example, my marketing unit will not hire anyone who is culturally limited. Regardless of your experience on paper, we tend to not hire people who don't embrace a wide swath of interests or cannot articulate them in a "mainstream" way. That's because all of us are like that, so even if Candance from the hood got her BA from UC Berkeley with honors plus a few years of marketing experience, if she speaks with a "black dialect," is not active in enviromental issues, does not have a variety of diverse interests outside of work, has a limited grasp of current political issues (local, state, or national), then chances are high that we won't present an offer to her, even if she's qualified. We have turned down qualified applicants because we felt their grasp of English (written/spoken) was not sufficient, or because we thought they weren't "mainstream/generic" enough. Our determination is not based upon race, but more about whether they "fit" with our department. Honestly, it's still discriminatory, but it's reality.

So to that end, if people immediately look at your natural hair and think that you probably don't fit in the department's personality type, then yes, it's true that it puts you at a disadvantage. But FME, it's been the cultural dissonance that's been the problem, not the physical one.

You know what, this makes absolutely complete sense.


You have a great way of looking at things because I was always seeing it as if it was the hairstyle buuuutt

I have seen men or women with afro's and dreadlocks who fit in with the culture of mainstream America. They were eclectic like me. You can just tell when a person fits in with their group no matter what they were wearing. They knew about the same music genres, politics, whatever.

I think my generation is changing and it probably started with Gen X, I think.

So, I guess when I start to go on my interviews I should ofcourse learn more than just about the company but the particular location in which I will be interviewing to see if I would incorporate well with those individuals?

I guess I can wear my natural hair afterall! Hip-Hip Hoorayyyy!

Thanks alot. Your perspective helped me learn alot today which I will forever be grateful.

 

[Pookie25]

Thats a blessing! I love to hear news like that. I am natural too and is one of my worries when its time to look for a job. Congratulations!!!

 

[Country gal]

I'm really enjoying the conversation with the varied perspectives. Please keep the dialouge going.

 

[BerrySweet]

Most white people don't give a darn about our hair. It's the black people who wanna get up in arms about an unrelaxed head b/c it "makes us all look bad." And as far as conforming, very few places put restrictions on women's hair, aside from color. Usually it's just the men, and when they say things like no dreds, etc, it goes for white men-no long flowing rockstar hair for them either.