Overprocessing Nightmare!! Avoid this Salon!!

[FutureMD]

Wow, after suffering the years of a bad overprocess for many years (hair kept breaking off in the same spot after initial massive hair loss in the sink at the salon), I finally found my salvation...great, simply marvelous stylist that I'd gone to years before (back when hair was perfectly healthy and easily long). He prescribed good structured cuts and took my relaxer down to the level of texturizer (carefully cutting off the overprocessed ends in stages so that while it was shorter than I was used to, it was NEVER short).

Sure enough, it worked...the cut started holding unbelievably well...after 8 weeks, my ends were as blunt and even and perfect as if I had just gotten it done. The texturizing was also perfect for my hair texture...my hair is very thick (will have to figure out the whole photo thing, I only have paper photos to show my hair over the years) but doesn't need loads of help to straighten. I don't have pictures of the non-straightened texlax, which is too bad b/c it was amazing.

Which is what brought me to my current nightmare. It's pretty common for stylists to lazily proclaim my thick hair (even if you look at it, the strands are straightened) unprocessed, underprocessed, etc. Very silly, b/c if you are a relaxer stretcher or texlaxer or if you just don't need perms that often, then depending on when you go to the salon, your hair might have waved up a lot. However, in most cases, I tell the stylists that I"m fine and that once they get me under the sink, they'll see that my hair is not underprocessed at all for my hair type.

I went to Mitchell's Salon in Cincinnati, to one of their "master stylists." I question what that really means, b/c she made just a novice, ignorant blunder on my hair (and w/out my permission) that it cannot be believed. I had been to the gym that morning, and b/c my hair was more texlaxed, it had waved up substantially. Even though she had never seen me in her life, she proceeded to declare my hair "uneven." How can someone who has never seen you at your best decide that she knows what kind of hair you have? The only thing she could correctly say about my hair is that it is thicker than most (and there are just a lot hairs).I told her I was fine, I'd been to the gym. She said, "yeah, yeah, I heard you." She then proceeded to use the let's gang up and make you insecure, so she called over some other stylist. I said, no it's fine, leave it.

I took off my glasses and she started. Well, i picked them up part way, and to my horror, this idiot was putting relaxer on my already relaxed hair. Not even a comb-thru, but a full on relaxer. I told her I was burning b/c she had already demonstrated how impertinent and willful she was. She seemed very pleased with herself.

My thought is that in Ohio and in Kentucky, where I currently live (although not for much longer), people are still in the Stone Ages w/ regards to hair processing. These old school, uneducated stylists don't understand that relaxers are not one size fits all, that not everyone wants pin straight hair, and most important, not everyone really needs it.

My hair is insanely dry, and it's chipping off after months of only losing hair to normal shedding.

I'm quite mad. I went back to the salon after writing a complaint, and while i was given a partial refund, certificates for some more "work" and some expensive hair care products, I'm still bothered that their customer service person (a white lady) was trying to defend this woman's work. I had pictures to show my before...I don't know if it was b/c she was white or what, but that lady was a big idiot too if she thought that what I was showing her looked like what I had started with. My ends, which were still perfectly blunt 2 weeks ago, look like someone has been chewing on them. She said, "oh, I don't think you're going to have to cut your hair off, but you do need a haircut." I think I glared at her b/c that's when she really upped the ante with regards to the refund and the additional products/services. I don't know what to do with those certificates. I did say that i'm not going to anymore willful, impertinent stylists. She recommened one of their younger ones. She seemed nice and possibly pliable, but I'm going to go to my old pros before using those certificates.

I mean, I know about comb thrus...this wasn't even that. Don't let anyone in lower Ohio (I'm assuming someone in Cleveland might have a clue) do your hair. They are clearly uneducated hacks.

So now I have to hang my head in shame and return to Detroit (hopefully) to get my regular hairdresser. I don't care where I went up (I've moved), I'm always going to make time to go up there (or to my 2nd favorite stylist in Chicago) He'll be shocked at how badly his work has been damaged with only one visit to a so-called professional. He had me at the point where all I had to do was sit back and let my hair grow to whatever goal I picked. It was just that perfect.

Oh, I should also mention that the lady tried to pad the bill and charge me with a haircut (which at this majority white salon was over $60). I don't know how their rep could defend someone who is essentially stealing from clients and possibly lying about it. The refund for the cut that wasn't was the first thing she offered. I mean really...but her attempt to bamboozle me and my previous hair disaster are what motivated me to take action. My hair was thick, full, and even when I went in there. I don't understand the logic of defying my wishes, padding my bill to unthinkable levels, or even assuming that anyone's hair could look like mine did if there was some kind of chemical issue. Any intelligent stylist would have at least done it first before altering it irreparably (but she knew I had a regular stylist so it was also crazy to assume that she knew my hair better than he did).

I also saw some lady leaving the salon with her hair "done." It was garbage. Very old school looking...overly straight and greasy looking. Like a bad press and curl. No body, no movement, not that silky look that I'm used to. The self-relaxers on this board should open shops if this is what passes for hair styling and relaxing in Cincinnati. You ladies could own that market. It's essentially the same unimpressive hair that I see all over my town in Lexington too. But if the ladies down here are used to looking that bad, then I guess it's why this chick counts as a "master stylist." They need to get out more, go to the city and see what fly hair really is.

In places like Detroit or Chicago, I see plenty of people with beautiful hair...well-styled, well processed, well-colored. People who are texturized, texlaxed, relaxed, but just an overall nice look that makes you sure that you can find good service in a lot of places. Here, people look very country...tight curls or this lady's greasy straight do.

So I'm really tempted to forward them some literature about what hair relaxing really means. Like maybe Dr. Susan Taylor's "Brown Skin" b/c they are really ignorant at this point.

And I'm still losing sleep over this latest nightmare. I can't believe that this ignorant lady thought that she was saving me from my wonderful stylist. Stupid, stupid, stupid...she's not good enough to be his shampoo girl.

I will mention the names of some great stylists if you are in Chicago or Detroit though...

Darnesha at Eshe in Chicago. A rarity b/c she will listen. She doens't impose her will, if you want only a dusting she will do it and it will be beautiful, and her overall ability to style and lightly relax are great. People always rave at my hair when I come from there.
David (or the other stylist in the shop, Jermaine) at Culture Blur. I'd call hi him the Hair Whisperer. He did my friend's hair when she was in grad school, and I went once back then (but at the time, my hair was pretty ideal so I didn't realize how awesome he was). Words can't accurately describe what he can do for you. Great attention to detail, a total perfectionist when it comes to hair. You will get a lot of attention paid to your hair. My first visit was quite long and I was the only person there. He had me texlaxed in a way that had my hair soft and smooth and adding length at a shocking rate b/c I wasn't losing a single hair for the 6 months that I went to him (I moved and only went to the horrible subsitute b/c I couldn't get back and wanted my do freshly done for some upcoming events).

Those ends were unbelievable...they were so tight that I didn't have to roller set to wear it down...my ponytail was so thick that I had to use an old scrunchie that was stretched out and that I didn't even double. I would just airdry and then add some product and then tie it up and it would straighten out in a few hours. The texture was amazing, it was super soft and shiny and I'd add jojoba oil. I started getting my old hair cut off last July, so I'm hoping that by this time next year, I'm back to the old me.

Kicking myself that I didn't just try to flatiron to buy myself some more time...

 

[ShiShiPooPoo]

Funny that I used to work at the Mitchell's location in Tri-County as the front desk girl. Even though I worked there and would get a discount, I NEVER allowed them to relax me...there was one stylist, Don, who could cut the mess out of some hair. I mean he would do these new type of cuts on me and they always looked good. He moved to Chicago.

I will tell you that Cincinnati (not necessarily the other big cities) is VERY behind when it comes to a lot of things. I know because I was born and raised there and now live in ATL. They are very archaic when it comes to proper haircare. They will do things to your hair that you would never imagine in a million years. I think that because Mitchell's primarily caters to the white crowd, they don't spend a lot of time educating their stylist re: different textures of hair and techniques to use on those textures.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. I am sure that your hair will recover quickly.

 

[kally]

Boy don't I know it. Cinti is behind. which is why I want to move to Dallas Tx. I gave up on Cinti salons years ago.

 

[natstar]

I'm sorry that happened to you futureMD. You will have your old hair back before you know it. Thanks for giving us info on the good stylists though.

 

[RubyWoo]

Hey futureMD! Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I'm sorry that you had such a terrible mishap with a terrible stylist. Hopefully, your hair will be where it was at prior to that incident.

With regards to the stylists that you recommended, did they add anything(ex. oil or conditioner) to the relaxer creme? Also, how long did they leave the relaxer in your hair? The reason I ask is because you said you had perfectly texlaxed hair that was silky and smooth. Those are results that I desire as well but I didn't necessarily get silky and smooth results when I attempted to texlax/texturize the one time I did. Relaxing straight gets me silky smooth results but I know that in the long run, texlaxing is the way to go if I want to maintain thickness and acquire more length.

 

[FutureMD]

Actually, both stylists just used mild Affirm. They didn't add anything to the perm. The interesting thing is that they actually don't load me up with products while styling at all. I would have always said that my natural hair was 4a, but the Detroit stylist said that I had fine hair, just a lot of it, that he thought most people would be prone to misread and misunderstand. The Chicago stylist didn't make any proclamations with regard to the texture, but she said that I didn't need more than a mild relaxer. She'd been styling and cutting my hair for about 2 years when she finally relaxed it, so she knew it very well at that point.

In my opinion, a lot of what gives that silky finish is the skill of the person applying it. Their ability to read your hair and know how long you need. I think I had about 15 minutes or less max...it wasn't very long. I trust them both so much that I don't watch the clock, but that part of things feels fast, like once they have it all the way through, they don't have me sit around at all. The minute it's all in, they are tapping me on the shoulder to move to the sink. They rinse out the spot where they started. But I never sit with relaxer at all (although the crazy lady in Cincy had me do it which is why I played the "I'm burning" card).

For example, the salon in Chicago is an Aveda salon. So after being neutralized, I think all of the products used to finish up are Aveda. When i use the same stuff at home, it actually doesn't end up as soft as it does when I use other stuff.

In the Detroit salon, it's independently owned, and the products are pretty basic but natural I think (limited scents and dyes and what not). So again, beyond the stuff necessary to neutralize the perm, nothing is unusual...both stylists do the conditioning under the dryer, but I honestly probably have more "high end" products at home that I use.

What I will say sets both of them apart is attention to detail. Neither put anything on my hair without really examining it closely to determine its texture and so they both understood that my hair was thick but not in need of heavy processing. They are both as "slow" but in the sense that they spend a lot of time on me. I'm not sitting around waiting for them, they really spend lots of time doing the hair. In Detroit, the cuts are very slowly done. They are both very delicate and thorough when cutting, and I am a FIRM believer in the power of a good cut...if you get your ends in order, you'll find that as your hair gets longer, it will retain its thickness throughout. My ends held moisture, they held curl, they looked good if only straightened with a ceramic iron, and they were super thick but never frizzy and after a visit to the salon, a wrap was enough to keep my hair looking great for several days.
You figure, the hack stylist in Cincy used the same Affirm that I've had now for years, and yet she managed to overprocess me with it.

And stuff like blow drying or wrapping or even curling are not things that all people are good at. The same tools and products can have VASTLY different results when in the wrong hands. So it can be the difference between looking like a grandma going to church with pin curls and looking like you just stepped off a box of Dark and Lovely where you are the hair model.

Oh, and I did ask the Chicago stylist why I could get the softness and moisture at home but maybe not the same sleekness...and she mentioned something similar to what you said-that I might get that look more eaily with a quick comb thru, but I knew I dind't want that. I liked the fullness and the fact that it waved up a bit...you might need to practice giving yourself a blowout with a brush...that's really what makes the difference, in addition to NOT BEING OVERPROCESSED.

if you are overprocessed, your hair will never get that super soft feeling. you can mask it, but it's not the same. my hair currently doesn't feel like my hair. i can't say if this is what a perm feels like on someone with very coarse hair, i just don't know. i think that some salon's, like Olive's in Chesnut Hill (Boston) can make ANYONE's hair feel silky smooth, no matter what the texture. I was really pissed when the salon in Cincy was trying to tell me that "that's how permed hair feels" when they'd never felt MY hair.

I think that my hair continued to feel soft and smooth (albeit much fuller) when I did it myself b/c my own personal method was to wash, deep condition, apply leave in and coconut oil when damp, and maybe jojoba oil when I was closer to dry. I usually do this on Saturday, and airdry a bit...then I'd tie my hair down with one of those mesh net things, and I'd sit under the dryer to get my hair just to the edge of dryness (maybe it would be a little damp in the back underneath the rest of the hair). I'd then tie it up in a scarf. It sounds really involved but it really didn't take that long and I'd do it as I was going other stuff around the house on the weekend. But that worked well, and I would use spray in during the week after working out (not ideal but no time to re-wash and it worked out well).

i've been overprocessed before, but that time it was to the tune of having immediate and massive hair loss and hair that was all tangly. uncharacteristically thin and pretty useless.

This time, my hair didn't come out, although it is chipping away and while it is currently uniform length and thickness, I expect to see my ends rapidly thin out (I think i'm just about bra strap when straight right now), and it will not hold any moisturizing products. Does anyone have any suggestions on products to use for hair that has lots its moisture balance ? I currently feel like I'm just playing a game to kind of minimize my losses as I grow out new hair, and since it's been 3 weeks of experimenting, i just don't think that this hair will regain that ability...I'm just trying to not be jacked up looking for the next year or so. i was given Bumble and Bumble BB Damage Therapy stuff by the salon, over $120 worth of products, and I was told it would take a while to see if it helped, but honestly, my hair has been WORSE with each passing week...harder and dryer. When I'm at home, I'm typically in a scarf b/c otherwise it just turns so dry.

It's deceptive, b/c I started with a lot of hair, so if you've never seen me, it still looks good. But it just isn't, and it's seems so small to me.

 

[BlackPearl1]

I really sorry this happen to you. I'm sure your hair would be ok before you Know it. The more I read threads on this topic the more I want to learn to self relax but I am so scaried .

 

[FutureMD]

Well, there are plenty of people here who I think so self-relax so I'm sure you can find some good advice on it...I've done it before, and wish to all that is holy that I'd done it myself again last time. I think I'm my own BEST back up unless I'm in a real city with a real black population. I kind of think that you can gauge a the quality of a city's black haircare with the way that the city treats black people. Any chocolate city where you see lots of black professionals, where black people are mayors or city council members or police chiefs or visible on the TV news, you can get hooked up. Cincy is a hostile place, and I think that Lexington isn't much better. If the city doesn't respect its black residents, then they aren't going to provide us with any good services.

You can practice with cholesterol conditioner to see if you can apply it properly...then when you are done, see how you did in the sections that you can't see with a mirror held up to a mirror. Oh, and buy the stuff that you can apply to protect your already relaxed hair. It's what I used when I self-relaxed and I only stopped using it b/c I had once again gotten used to pros and not hacks doing my hair. Any protein based conditioner is supposed to work well too, and I read that castor oil can reduce shedding so start applying it a few days before you relax.

You figure, if you panic, rinse yourself out, b/c being a little under is better than being WAY, WAY over.

If you are in a major city, a good stylist could fix that IF you need it done.
I've been to great stylists in D.C.(Giovanni, it's Dominican, on Adam Mill Road), Boston(Kramers or Olive's), Chicago, and Detroit. I've never had my hair done in Atlanta but I've been down here, I've had friend who lived there, and they always looked very good too. Also never had my hair done in NYC.

It's just here in the boondocks where the stylists are hacks and frauds.

 

[RubyWoo]

Actually, both stylists just used mild Affirm. They didn't add anything to the perm. The interesting thing is that they actually don't load me up with products while styling at all. I would have always said that my natural hair was 4a, but the Detroit stylist said that I had fine hair, just a lot of it, that he thought most people would be prone to misread and misunderstand. The Chicago stylist didn't make any proclamations with regard to the texture, but she said that I didn't need more than a mild relaxer. She'd been styling and cutting my hair for about 2 years when she finally relaxed it, so she knew it very well at that point.

In my opinion, a lot of what gives that silky finish is the skill of the person applying it. Their ability to read your hair and know how long you need. I think I had about 15 minutes or less max...it wasn't very long. I trust them both so much that I don't watch the clock, but that part of things feels fast, like once they have it all the way through, they don't have me sit around at all. The minute it's all in, they are tapping me on the shoulder to move to the sink. They rinse out the spot where they started. But I never sit with relaxer at all (although the crazy lady in Cincy had me do it which is why I played the "I'm burning" card).

For example, the salon in Chicago is an Aveda salon. So after being neutralized, I think all of the products used to finish up are Aveda. When i use the same stuff at home, it actually doesn't end up as soft as it does when I use other stuff.

In the Detroit salon, it's independently owned, and the products are pretty basic but natural I think (limited scents and dyes and what not). So again, beyond the stuff necessary to neutralize the perm, nothing is unusual...both stylists do the conditioning under the dryer, but I honestly probably have more "high end" products at home that I use.

What I will say sets both of them apart is attention to detail. Neither put anything on my hair without really examining it closely to determine its texture and so they both understood that my hair was thick but not in need of heavy processing. They are both as "slow" but in the sense that they spend a lot of time on me. I'm not sitting around waiting for them, they really spend lots of time doing the hair. In Detroit, the cuts are very slowly done. They are both very delicate and thorough when cutting, and I am a FIRM believer in the power of a good cut...if you get your ends in order, you'll find that as your hair gets longer, it will retain its thickness throughout. My ends held moisture, they held curl, they looked good if only straightened with a ceramic iron, and they were super thick but never frizzy and after a visit to the salon, a wrap was enough to keep my hair looking great for several days.
You figure, the hack stylist in Cincy used the same Affirm that I've had now for years, and yet she managed to overprocess me with it.

And stuff like blow drying or wrapping or even curling are not things that all people are good at. The same tools and products can have VASTLY different results when in the wrong hands. So it can be the difference between looking like a grandma going to church with pin curls and looking like you just stepped off a box of Dark and Lovely where you are the hair model.

Oh, and I did ask the Chicago stylist why I could get the softness and moisture at home but maybe not the same sleekness...and she mentioned something similar to what you said-that I might get that look more eaily with a quick comb thru, but I knew I dind't want that. I liked the fullness and the fact that it waved up a bit...you might need to practice giving yourself a blowout with a brush...that's really what makes the difference, in addition to NOT BEING OVERPROCESSED.

if you are overprocessed, your hair will never get that super soft feeling. you can mask it, but it's not the same. my hair currently doesn't feel like my hair. i can't say if this is what a perm feels like on someone with very coarse hair, i just don't know. i think that some salon's, like Olive's in Chesnut Hill (Boston) can make ANYONE's hair feel silky smooth, no matter what the texture. I was really pissed when the salon in Cincy was trying to tell me that "that's how permed hair feels" when they'd never felt MY hair.

I think that my hair continued to feel soft and smooth (albeit much fuller) when I did it myself b/c my own personal method was to wash, deep condition, apply leave in and coconut oil when damp, and maybe jojoba oil when I was closer to dry. I usually do this on Saturday, and airdry a bit...then I'd tie my hair down with one of those mesh net things, and I'd sit under the dryer to get my hair just to the edge of dryness (maybe it would be a little damp in the back underneath the rest of the hair). I'd then tie it up in a scarf. It sounds really involved but it really didn't take that long and I'd do it as I was going other stuff around the house on the weekend. But that worked well, and I would use spray in during the week after working out (not ideal but no time to re-wash and it worked out well).

i've been overprocessed before, but that time it was to the tune of having immediate and massive hair loss and hair that was all tangly. uncharacteristically thin and pretty useless.

This time, my hair didn't come out, although it is chipping away and while it is currently uniform length and thickness, I expect to see my ends rapidly thin out (I think i'm just about bra strap when straight right now), and it will not hold any moisturizing products. Does anyone have any suggestions on products to use for hair that has lots its moisture balance ? I currently feel like I'm just playing a game to kind of minimize my losses as I grow out new hair, and since it's been 3 weeks of experimenting, i just don't think that this hair will regain that ability...I'm just trying to not be jacked up looking for the next year or so. i was given Bumble and Bumble BB Damage Therapy stuff by the salon, over $120 worth of products, and I was told it would take a while to see if it helped, but honestly, my hair has been WORSE with each passing week...harder and dryer. When I'm at home, I'm typically in a scarf b/c otherwise it just turns so dry.

It's deceptive, b/c I started with a lot of hair, so if you've never seen me, it still looks good. But it just isn't, and it's seems so small to me.

Thank you !

 

[KBA]

So sorry to hear about your hair experience. There is nothing worse than paying and leaving the salon disappointed. I didn't realize or pay attention that Mitchell's did relaxers, I've only been there for spa treatments. I am sure there are some good cincy stylists, but i haven't found any yet. i've tried 3 already. right now, I drive an hour to dayton to get my relaxers and do my own wash/sets at home.

 

[FutureMD]

Well, I'm only in KY (Lexington) temporarily now, but I'd be curious to know where you go in Dayton, and what products they use? I guess I did know it was a much "blacker" place, home to Zapp and Roger and a lot of other folks. I wasn't sure what the cut-off was for getting decent haircare, but I knew that people down here look unequivocally crazy. I've never seen anyone that I would approach to ask who does their hair. I'll never be lazy about who I see ever again. It's just too much time and work if you are keeping your hair longer to have to start over again. I'll be sad for months. And i have to get to Detroit to begin the re-cutting process. I think a good stretch is in order...there is no way I could see my hair ready to take more chemicals in just 5-6 more weeks.
I should have known better about Cincy too...I've experienced its backwardness in other ways since I was raised just an hour south.