Old timers who still insist on the good/bad hair rule.

[melodee]

A lil vent:

my mother is still going around labeling hair "good" or "pretty" and "bad" or "not nice". She usually only comments on the hair she finds nice/pretty. But as a transitioner considering going to fro, it is getting so annoying.

I tried to ask her what she means that certain hair is good. She said it's easy to comb. I said any hair that's soft and moisturized is easy to comb. She says that pretty hair lays down and is silky. Okay, so it is. I'm not contesting this per se. But if you're natural and want to wear a natural style, isn't your routine easy?

Anyway, it's hard to change the more mature, as they are set in their beliefs that have been instilled in them since childhood. But she keeps telling my daughter that " you have pretty hair and Grandma doesn't". It's hard to undo this damage.

 

[zora]

Hi Melodee!

I personally have never thought that people are dead set in their ways. I think that's an excuse people use when they don't want to get into it with someone older.

I think even if you're 85, there's room for growth and enlightment. The person receiving the information can decide whether they're open to new views and from what I've seen it's not an age thing, it's a stubborn thing.

I would respectfully ask your mom not to say these things around your daughter out of respect for you. That way her views stop at her generation within your family. Now if your daughter picks it up somewhere else, it's a different story.

 

[Allandra]

IMO, people that are 'set in their ways' will always use these terms.

 

[Sharpened]

Lead by example, and you may be surprised at the changes. Now my mother gets mad when I chop my hair off...just cannot win, I swear.

 

[moda]

I am appalled that people still use this as just another way to divide people. Unfortunately I do not think there is anything you can do to change people's view on the good hair bad hair debate.

 

[Cheleigh]

I have an old time cousin (in her 70s) who looked agast when she saw I'd cut off my hair, and then she shook her head in disbelief and apparent sadness. I didn't say much but smile at her, because what to say? I'm not going to read her the nappy manifesto at a celebratory event for my grandmother.

A loc'd friend I met last weekend recounted the story of her 10 year old biracial son who tried to loc a few weeks ago. It didn't take, because his hair is like a silky 2a/b, and he's on the swim team, so he couldn't give it the proper time to loc. He was so disappointed, and he said to his mom "you don't understand, what it's like to have hair like this, because you have napptural hair." She thought it was so ironic for him to say that, and tells him "I do understand, because I spent 20 years trying to get my hair straight like yours." He was so shocked, because he couldn't imagine anyone wanting anything but kinky hair that will loc easily. That has largely to do with the influcence of his mom (and yes, his dad lives in the home with them) and her love of her own hair. I thought the story was so sweet, because it's the opposite of the stories I usually here--most of us want straighter hair, not kinkier hair.

 

[Catina72]

Gosh did I grow up with this mentality all around me!! But, for me, it was my mom who had the "good" hair and I had the "bad". I was the only kid that had to get her hair done, Professionally, since I was 5 years old!! My mom would be quick to let me know she didn't know how to do "my hair"! But honestly, it isn't just the old timers, its everyone!! We have to empower ourselves to rewrite the meaning of good and bad hair. Good hair,to me, means hair that is healthy, growing hair. I don't even use the term 'bad' when referring to hair. Maybe damaged, overprocessed, starving for moisture, but never "bad"!

 

[Country gal]

You can't change some folks. They have to want to change. An old family friend calls blacks colored. I just ignore it and say black. She says she can't get in the habit of saying black or African American becuase colored was the term for blacks for so long.

 

[pink_n_green_iz_me]

I am appalled that people still use this as just another way to divide people. Unfortunately I do not think there is anything you can do to change people's view on the good hair bad hair debate.

It's no different than the lightskin vs. the darkskin women, there's nothing you can do to change people's view/opinions

 

[SoniT]

My family is like this too and it's not just the older generation. Even my sister who is 39 talks about "good" and "bad" hair. She always talks about how our mother has "good" hair so she can rock the wash and go look. My sister has even passed this down to my 10 year old niece. My niece has beautiful, thick, hair that's below the shoulders but my sister has the child thinking her hair is "nappy." My sister always talks about how my niece's hair is too thick and hard to manage. It bothers me because when I was a child I used to hear adults say negative things about my hair and it had a strong impact on me. I always make sure to tell my niece that she has beautiful hair.

 

[Cayenne0622]

A lil vent:

my mother is still going around labeling hair "good" or "pretty" and "bad" or "not nice". She usually only comments on the hair she finds nice/pretty. But as a transitioner considering going to fro, it is getting so annoying.

I tried to ask her what she means that certain hair is good. She said it's easy to comb. I said any hair that's soft and moisturized is easy to comb. She says that pretty hair lays down and is silky. Okay, so it is. I'm not contesting this per se. But if you're natural and want to wear a natural style, isn't your routine easy?

Anyway, it's hard to change the more mature, as they are set in their beliefs that have been instilled in them since childhood. But she keeps telling my daughter that " you have pretty hair and Grandma doesn't". It's hard to undo this damage.

I beg to differ with mom's opinion of hair that lays down and is silky is good hair. I work with a number of caucasian women who have hair that lays down and is silky...I guess...and it looks a hot mess. Its not well-groomed nor is it well taken care of. One lady's hair is thin and frail and she can't do a thing with it. I ABSOLUTELY HATE the whole good hair/bad hair myth. It hurts young kinky headed girls to their heart. I was one of those girls in a very racial mixed family where no other females had my head of hair. I cried many nights about it. My grandmother, who has straight silky hair all the way down to her but, made me believe something was terribly wrong with my fine 4a hair. No one really even knew how to take care of it. As an adult, I am proud to say that I know how to take care of my hair. I have loved it at times and I have hated it at times but I now know there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[firecracker]

Hi Melodee!
I personally have never thought that people are dead set in their ways. I think that's an excuse people use when they don't want to get into it with someone older.

I think its more like acknowledging the fact that you cannot change an already determined mind. You decide what you will deal with or not in regards to that persons attitude and actions.


Melodee forgive Po back in the day momma's. My mom is the same way. She was very upset my daughter and I went back to nappy. She was so upset when she saw me she cried like a baby. Oh I forgot to mention she put her hands in it and pulled back in horror.

 

[glamazon386]

Yeah... I understand how you feel. I never really heard this discussed around my moms family though. I always heard the light skin dark skin discussions. Most of them are thick 2 or type 3 hair types. They relax a few times a year to cut down on the bulk of the hair. I have 1 great aunt who is a 4B. I've heard them talk about handling her hair being a nightmare. They talked about my moms hair. She's a 4b. My mom and most of us grandkids (I'm a great grand) are 4as and 4bs. I think it's just a matter of people having to condition their mind into a new way of thinking. I'm sure many naturals here had those same thoughts about their hair before going natural, but have since changed their mind. But you're right about some old people being set in their ways. I still get ugly comments about my complexion. No one really has much to say about my hair though. Its usually covered up some kind of way.

On occasion I get nappy head comments from my mom. But that's usually only when my hair looks a mess. She even said my weave was looking nappy. Okay so it did. That curly hair was looking a frizzy mess lately because I didn't have time to sit down and detangle section by section for like a whole week. But anyway, I didn't know how to tell her I was transitioning for this reason. But when I got my hair braided the other day and I was sitting on the porch next to her she was looking at it and she saw my hair around the edges is fine. She was like your hair looks nice right here. Is all of it like that? I was like yeah for the most part. So she was like what are you gonna do? Just let it stay like that? I was like yeah but I'm gonna let it grow out some more before I cut the relaxer out. I'm tired of it continuing to break off from the relaxer. I don't know what else to do so I'm just gonna leave it alone for a while. So she was like oh okay so what are you just gonna wear it in a little curly bush? and I was like yeah. She also saw that my hair curled up a few weeks back when I was wearing a phony puff. I think she changed her mind once she saw what my texture really looks like. I'm totally surprised that she's supportive of my decision. I guess she understands now after seeing the amount of frustration we've both been through regarding my hair over the past 8-10 years or so. But I mean why did it take that to change her mind? If I was a straight up 4b would she be making the same comments? Doubt it. She'd be fussing about how nappy my head was. And that's the truth...

 

[MissFallon]

My mother says this too. Whenever I talk about my hair or about her going natural she says that she doesn't want to have nappy hair (if you pull on it long enough it stays straight) and that I have in between hair because she has ok hair and my dad has good hair. What the hell is "in between" hair? She tells me its not good but its not bad.

 

[kristina]

My mom is like this but after talking more about hair with her, I totally understand why-
Basically her older sister (my aunt) and her mother had super long wavy/curly hair. Her hair is my type and when she was little she was the only one who had to get her hair hotcombed so it is only natural that she thinks like this. But she is changing because she sees me do alot of things with my hair that she assumed was impossible (like making smooth and flat buns without heat).

 

[HoneyDew]

My mom still says stuff like that, but I just have to keep telling myself that she is just ol skool. She is a very youthful 50 year old, but many of her comments are just too back in the day for me.

Just think about the times back in the 60's when guy and gals started rocking Natural hair in fros. I bet everyone glued to their straightening combs from the 50's where like at them, too. But, then in the 70's it really was no big thing. It was after that when we started the weave glued in, fried, dyed, laid to the side hair revolution.

It is SO time, for us to check ourselves when it comes to our hair care and it good that more people are seeing the beauty in all healthy hair textures.

 

[MissYocairis]

I have an old time cousin (in her 70s) who looked agast when she saw I'd cut off my hair, and then she shook her head in disbelief and apparent sadness. I didn't say much but smile at her, because what to say? I'm not going to read her the nappy manifesto at a celebratory event for my grandmother.

A loc'd friend I met last weekend recounted the story of her 10 year old biracial son who tried to loc a few weeks ago. It didn't take, because his hair is like a silky 2a/b, and he's on the swim team, so he couldn't give it the proper time to loc. He was so disappointed, and he said to his mom "you don't understand, what it's like to have hair like this, because you have napptural hair." She thought it was so ironic for him to say that, and tells him "I do understand, because I spent 20 years trying to get my hair straight like yours." He was so shocked, because he couldn't imagine anyone wanting anything but kinky hair that will loc easily. That has largely to do with the influcence of his mom (and yes, his dad lives in the home with them) and her love of her own hair. I thought the story was so sweet, because it's the opposite of the stories I usually here--most of us want straighter hair, not kinkier hair.

@ your "nappy manifesto"

and, I love that story you told. Bless that child's heart. That is so sweet. He must have a wonderful mother that she has raised him to hold those perceptions in a world where so much is to the contrary.

 

[princcessnadia]

That is awesome that you tell your niece she has beautiful hair no matter what the texture... hearing that growing up that my hair was nappy when my cousins had "good" hair caused me to think that wearing weaves and extentions were the only way people would like my hair, we must help break this good and bad hair thing since there really is no good or bad hair IMO.

 

[melodee]

Yes, my mom is set in her opinion. And it has been formed over time.

When she was in HS, she was part of a very popular group of "prissy" girls. Every one of them except her was lighter skinned and had curly long hair or coils that could lay down. She told me the story countless times about how the others would get all the boys--I guess the city boys in the 60's were color/hairstruck. She said that all the well to do families would have social gatherings for the youths and that they would mainly invite all light skinned folks or folks with long or wavy/curly hairtypes-- no nappies.
So she wound up at the parties by going along with girlfriends or her sister's boyfriend--who was light and handsome.

Also, my father is Latino and has a straight wave texture. And my baby sister has curly ringlets. My bro and I have the coily/kinky hair. But my mom contends that our hair is not bad, that it has a nice pattern and is soft, unlike hers. BUT, I feel that her labeling insults my hair's natural pattern and God's decision to make me the way I am, even if she isn't directly talking about me.
My daughter has ringlets like my sister, and her hair is very long. So naturally my mom raves about her hair. And I do too, as it is sooo nice--nothing wrong with stating this fact. But I want folks to know I got nice hair too, even if it is a little woolly.

 

[KiniKakes]

I would respectfully ask your mom not to say these things around your daughter out of respect for you. That way her views stop at her generation within your family. Now if your daughter picks it up somewhere else, it's a different story.

Agreed! Although you may never be able to change your mom's mentality..... that type of cultural and mental oppression does not have to be passed on to your daughter.

I shudder when I hear anyone refer to "good" or "bad" hair. And I get VERY defensive if anyone dares refer to my hair (versus my sister's slightly coarser/shorter hair) as "bad." That is cause for a good, stern lecture on history and self-hatred from me! erplexed We don't play that in our family. Same thing with skin-color. Me and my siblings vary widely.... and down south, the lighter family members are considered prettier. But.... if anyone dares comment on one of our complexion being "better," my mother will nip it in the bud quick!!!!

 

[melodee]

Agreed! Although you may never be able to change your mom's mentality..... that type of cultural and mental oppression does not have to be passed on to your daughter.

I shudder when I hear anyone refer to "good" or "bad" hair. And I get VERY defensive if anyone dares refer to my hair (versus my sister's slightly coarser/shorter hair) as "bad." That is cause for a good, stern lecture on history and self-hatred from me! erplexed We don't play that in our family. Same thing with skin-color. Me and my siblings vary widely.... and down south, the lighter family members are considered prettier. But.... if anyone dares comment on one of our complexion being "better," my mother will nip it in the bud quick!!!!

Kini, I agree. I do what I can, but if some folks are determined to believe it, lecturing won't do too much good.

Sometimes though, her point of view gets inforced by society. While my daughter and sister have been asked to be hair models by our stylists, I have never been. And my hair is long as well, just not the same texture. I don't have that "stereotypical mixed girl's" hair.

 

[hopeful]

I've noticed the best thing to do, especially when it comes to our mother's is to just let them be. I'd just say to myself that she's likely always going to be that way and I can't change her. I'd ask her to stop talking about good and bad hair around my kids but mostly I'd just focus on teaching my daughter, at some point when she talks silly stuff to her, your daughter will look at you with a smile that says, there she goes again but I know better.

I've talked to my mom about this same thing and she has changed a lot (as far as what she says) but I can tell that the good hair/bad hair thing is in-grained in her and she can't help it. When she starts going on and on about how pretty (which I know means good or lol nice grade) my older daughter's longer relaxed hair is I just tune her out and express very little interest in the conversation. She never comments on my younger daughter's kinkier natural hair one way or the other.

 

[Barbara]

That's why it's best to instill in children early that they have nice, soft hair-- so they won't grow up with a "hair complex." They are too young to be exposed to such negativity.

I always tell my niece she has soft, pretty hair or that her hair is nice and soft. We have to be positive, so when they grow older . . . they won't be disappointed with the negative comments regarding African American hair.

 

[ChocalateDiva]

I beg to differ with mom's opinion of hair that lays down and is silky is good hair. I work with a number of caucasian women who have hair that lays down and is silky...I guess...and it looks a hot mess. Its not well-groomed nor is it well taken care of. One lady's hair is thin and frail and she can't do a thing with it. I ABSOLUTELY HATE the whole good hair/bad hair myth. It hurts young kinky headed girls to their heart. I was one of those girls in a very racial mixed family where no other females had my head of hair. I cried many nights about it. My grandmother, who has straight silky hair all the way down to her but, made me believe something was terribly wrong with my fine 4a hair. No one really even knew how to take care of it. As an adult, I am proud to say that I know how to take care of my hair. I have loved it at times and I have hated it at times but I now know there is nothing wrong with it.[/quote]


I love dis!! It is my new motto!!!!!

 

[nikkivale]

My mom talks like this even though she won't admit it. Whever I question her to describe "good/pretty hair" she says "you know, curly and can comb through it easy". I always say 'ooh okay so not bad ugly hair like yours'. That usually stops her in her tracks and she looks at me all embarrased..

 

[Softresses]

Melodee, I can understand your situation,

My mother does the same thing. She still lives hundreds of years in the past with this mess. Saying stuff like "good grades of hair,"

And why oh why did she and my sister call me all excited when my sister had her baby, the first thing out of both of thier mouths was AND SHE"S HIGH YELLA!!! These two grown women, both beautiful dark skinned ladies acting as though they had found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, because the baby is HIGH YELLOW!!! They named her a ridiculous name to befit a high priestess and totally set her apart from her siblings.


I hate this mentality and I guess that is why stuff like that bothers me so much.


Softresses


ETA: I did not realize this was an old post,

Barbara, I am in total agreement with you. When I was a girl, we got picked at at school by other raced girls about our hair. It can be crushing to have to hear that mess from one's own family.

 

[*Muffin*]

Don't worry about what other people think. When people change and decide to try something new all of a sudden, you get people who will be against it. As long as you are making a decision that you feel happy with, that's all that matters. Your mom will come around eventually. As for this "good hair, bad hair" thing, as long as hair is healthy and strong, it's all good hair, whether it's 1a or 4b.

 

[loved]

My family uses these terms, but I'm not about to go deep or lecture my relatives who have walked this earth for 70 plus years, cuz if u ever met my grandma, u'd know there's no point to it.

I try to combat it by playing in the little girls' hair and always telling each girl what pretty hair she has.

My own hair has always been the blessing and the curse. As a true 4z, I have had horrendous experiences w/ hairdressers who did not know how to properly handle the coarseness/thickness of my hair. The flip side of that is that I had to learn, as a young girl, how to take care of my own hair. I have a collection of hair mags dating back to the early 90s. I have every Sophisticate's Black Hair mag put out since at least 94. I was going to throw my older hair mags out when I was moving, but thank God my mom caught me and offered to store them.

I did my first big chop when I was in the 8th grade when I chopped off 1 side to get the asymetric do, and I have been rocking and rolling with my hair every since. Whenever I visit my family, I take my products and tools because I know I will have a line of "customers" asking me to do their hair.

This is all to say that my family uses that good/pretty hair term, but they have always gone gaga over my hair even though it's probably the nappiest hair (Ex. A is is my fotki) on earth before it's relaxed. My hair is not LHCF long, but I guess for what they'd expect to see it's usually pretty and healthy.

 

[Luvmylife]

***sigh***
This phrase is probably the easiest way to get on my last damned nerve.

I have had to battle this situation within my DH's family and in 10 years I have gotten no where My MIL and SIL use this term relentlessly and I have tried to gently correct them everytime with "...there's no such thing as good hair. If you have hair at all then you have good hair!"
They still don't see what I mean and the usual response is "Girl...you know what I mean...straight like white folks..."

I've had to get irate with my own father on a few occasions for buying into this BS and my sis and a few of my friends won't go as far as saying "good hair"...they refer to it as "Hawaiian Silky" hair

WTF?? Are you serious?? In the year 2007??

This good hair-bad hair/light skin-dark skin/dark eyes-light eyes crap has got to stop...and since old folks can't seem to get past it, the responsibility lies with us.

I have given up in making any headway with my family or DH's but I have told my husband that that type of talk will not be tolerated in our house our around our children. They will not be responsible for giving my kids a complex!