Is there a Curse on Black People?

[softblackcotton]

When I think of most things negative and hated by people around the world, black people or black-related things usually have something to do with it.

• in general, our neighborhoods are run-down
• we are mostly poor (paycheck to paycheck) with little generational wealth
• little to no respect of reverence for black women
• broken families and homes
• African civil unrest and crooked politicians
• European countries owning majority of wealth of African nations
• black physical features are hated by most other nations
• racial discrimination from everyone including ourselves
• other nations benefitting the most from black-related products (selling out)
• generally black-businesses don't do as well as other nations
• black people general inability be cohesive "crabs in a barrel" seems to be a genetic trait of ours.
• just in general, black people always get the short end of the stick

What happened? I know God loves everyone, but why does He allow one particular segment of the human race to be treated like scrapings at the bottom of the barrel. In the Bible, Old testament, whenever the Israelites went through some horrible events and curses, it was because they had angered God by sinning in some way. However, EVERYONE sins today, enormously. How is that, in general, the black people seem to be suffering much more for our sins than other people? We were not even His chosen people in the Bible, so how could we have brought these curses down upon ourselves?

If you can answer, please try to include Biblical evidence if you can.

 

[8HoursFromHome]

nevermind.................

 

[softblackcotton]

Muslims please chime in...

I had a conversation with a devout Muslim gentleman many years ago about this. He explained to me that blacks have already had their time at the top. He also stressed that when we were there, the world was a MUCH better place.

He didn't get into too much more detail about it and it didn't really make me feel any better.

By time at the top, did he mean at the pinnacle of Ancient Egypt's Power? I know black people were the rulers of Ancient Egypt. That is why are the European archaeologists and Arabs who lived in Egypt broke the noses off 90% of the statues and busts. That way no one could tell the Ancient Egyptians were black by their noses.

 

[Guitarhero]

Nope, my G-d judges me solely by my own heart and actions. The problem is not a curse that G-d sustains, it's the evil in people's hearts. The more I live, the more I realize that there are many people who are oppressed in this world, not just Black people. It's only a matter of perspective. Of course, we westerners like to see things through the colonizer's eyes (by default) and without truly thinking about it, this Euro/Caucasian/White mindset have been carried throughout the seasons of man. It's the same mindset whether of the white ancient Berbers against the ancient Black Berbers, Medo-Persians (I'm aware of the diff. races of Persians), the Syriacs, Macedonians, western modern Europeans....same colonizing mindset based upon some self-perceived superiority according to the lighter race.

Unfortunately, scripture is often used to bend towards many viewpoints when it was not pointing to that specific historical detail at all.

 

[softblackcotton]

Nope, my G-d judges me solely by my own heart and actions. The problem is not a curse that G-d sustains, it's the evil in people's hearts. The more I live, the more I realize that there are many people who are oppressed in this world, not just Black people. It's only a matter of perspective. Of course, we westerners like to see things through the colonizer's eyes (by default) and without truly thinking about it, this Euro/Caucasian/White mindset have been carried throughout the seasons of man. It's the same mindset whether of the white ancient Berbers against the ancient Black Berbers, Medo-Persians (I'm aware of the diff. races of Persians), the Syriacs, Macedonians, western modern Europeans....same colonizing mindset based upon some self-perceived superiority according to the lighter race.

Unfortunately, scripture is often used to bend towards many viewpoints when it was not pointing to that specific historical detail at all.

I understand and appreciate your viewpoint. However, I know God judges based on the individual, but there has been times in the Bible when a whole group of people suffered based on the sins of one. For example, when King David took the census against God's will and God struck the Israelites with plague because of David's sin and distrust in God (2 Samuel CH. 24). Also you must wonder why the people of lighter skin and more European features seem to have had more of an historical colonial advantage more oft than not.

 

[wish4length]

When I think of most things negative and hated by people around the world, black people or black-related things usually have something to do with it.

• in general, our neighborhoods are run-down
• we are mostly poor (paycheck to paycheck) with little generational wealth
• little to no respect of reverence for black women
• broken families and homes
• African civil unrest and crooked politicians
• European countries owning majority of wealth of African nations
• black physical features are hated by most other nations
• racial discrimination from everyone including ourselves
• other nations benefitting the most from black-related products (selling out)
• generally black-businesses don't do as well as other nations
• black people general inability be cohesive "crabs in a barrel" seems to be a genetic trait of ours.
• just in general, black people always get the short end of the stick

What happened? I know God loves everyone, but why does He allow one particular segment of the human race to be treated like scrapings at the bottom of the barrel. In the Bible, Old testament, whenever the Israelites went through some horrible events and curses, it was because they had angered God by sinning in some way. However, EVERYONE sins today, enormously. How is that, in general, the black people seem to be suffering much more for our sins than other people? We were not even His chosen people in the Bible, so how could we have brought these curses down upon ourselves?

If you can answer, please try to include Biblical evidence if you can.

Free will perhaps? Many of the things you listed are brought about by lack of knowledge. Now, being physically hated, we can't control....although women are paying to have our lips and hips...
But we live paycheck to paycheck and have little to no generational wealth because we are not informed. Our broken families and homes stem from mistreatment of black women. How do our sons learn to love black women when daddy didn't or loved too many(3 kids and 3 baby's mamas)?
We suffer from self-hate (light skin vs dark) which is getting pretty darn old.
As far as black businesses, I've noticed when we own something everyone feels entitled to a "hook up". If you notice many business(not even black owned) move out of the "hood" because employees(us) tend to give "hook ups". I think that would not happen as often if these businesses would stay in our neighborhoods............
We are our biggest enemy and it's up to us to educate one another, but we have to be willing to be educated as well......

 

[Lovelylocs]

When I think of most things negative and hated by people around the world, black people or black-related things usually have something to do with it.

• in general, our neighborhoods are run-down
• we are mostly poor (paycheck to paycheck) with little generational wealth
• little to no respect of reverence for black women
• broken families and homes
• African civil unrest and crooked politicians
• European countries owning majority of wealth of African nations
• black physical features are hated by most other nations
• racial discrimination from everyone including ourselves
• other nations benefitting the most from black-related products (selling out)
• generally black-businesses don't do as well as other nations
• black people general inability be cohesive "crabs in a barrel" seems to be a genetic trait of ours.
• just in general, black people always get the short end of the stick

What happened? I know God loves everyone, but why does He allow one particular segment of the human race to be treated like scrapings at the bottom of the barrel. In the Bible, Old testament, whenever the Israelites went through some horrible events and curses, it was because they had angered God by sinning in some way. However, EVERYONE sins today, enormously. How is that, in general, the black people seem to be suffering much more for our sins than other people? We were not even His chosen people in the Bible, so how could we have brought these curses down upon ourselves?

If you can answer, please try to include Biblical evidence if you can.

Maybe you just think about black people more than other groups.

 

[Guitarhero]

I understand and appreciate your viewpoint. However, I know God judges based on the individual, but there has been times in the Bible when a whole group of people suffered based on the sins of one. For example, when King David took the census against God's will and God struck the Israelites with plague because of David's sin and distrust in God (2 Samuel CH. 24). Also you must wonder why the people of lighter skin and more European features seem to have had more of an historical colonial advantage more oft than not.

Jesus came and set the captives free. You go to heaven based upon your own heart and G-d's mercy to the individual. Nobody is grandfathered into salvation. It's a matter of colonial advantage? I don't believe so imho, it's a matter of perspective. Y'all know I am Native American...Black Native American...but still Native mindset. They have no advantage...they are like naughty little children. We are still waiting for them to grow up and become men and women and to stop harming the earth that sustains us all as well as to stop killing their brothers. How is someone who is hell-bent on destruction at any type of advantage? That is evil. You know, we have prophecies about a white brother who would come in the end of times who would bring healing the world over but he would not be like the other white "brothers." Before somebody else goes on this "why Jesus gottabe white?" His icons and other historical images from that time frame, long before Europeans left their caves to get unified religion. St. Luke painted his mother and him, the historian Josephus gave descriptions of his appearance etc....but some of the apostles were certainly BLACK. Jesus was not...but that's beside the point, actually. This is just my stance.

They have no advantage if life is far beyond just the physical. The punishments occurred way back in history with the expulsions from Israel into Babylonian captivity. The Jews have been slaves many times. But there is certainly evidence in scripture that a people would be taken from Africa to another land in chains. It didn't indicate they were Jewish (if I'm not mistaken...I've read the Chabadniks on this issue before). Unless you have Jewish ancestry, you are not Israel. Of course, there's spiritual Israel that has been grated into that vine via the church and the salvation that has come through the Son of David. The slavs of Europe felt the same exact way for centuries. I know this has hit people of color...but it wasn't the case until these imperialists came in and began their perpetual destruction. G-d didn't design Black people to be under anybody else and it's not always been the case.

But OP, please do not misunderstand, I know exactly how you feel. I look at it differently now. G-d will have an answer some day. But we are not cursed. How can you love G-d and be cursed? Everytime I look at something on television, I see Black people are automatically start praising G-d for their blessings! It's in the language, the expression, the living. I know others get embarassed but I see it as a blessed people.

 

[Shimmie]

Jesus came and set the captives free.

But we are not cursed.

How can you love G-d and be cursed?

Everytime I look at something on television, I see Black people are automatically start praising G-d for their blessings! It's in the language, the expression, the living. I know others get embarassed but I see it as a blessed people.

Beautiful post...

How can you love God and be cursed?

The most beautiful Truth of all...

 

[Prudent1]

Great question. One I struggled with for YEARS. I had some hatred and envy in my heart towards other races. I wasn't not happy about it either. So, like with everything else I can't solve on my own (like really what can I solve?) I prayed posing my questions to God. Here is what God revealed to me ( and I warn you you may not like it). Don't ever take my word for it. Go to him in prayer, meditate on your word, get it straight from the source.

Even though other races have done horrific unspeakable things, they did do some other things right. They tithed and they were givers. They did it while they were broke, unsaved, and ignorant. They just did it. It doesn't erase their other sins nor does it get them a into heaven free pass but it does count- more than we realize. I.kid.you.not this is what he revealed to me. You see, God's kingdom works on the principles of seed, time, and harvest. Tithing and giving are acts of sowing seed. In due time harvest comes-period. Did they enjoy a godly full harvest w/o serious consequences some of which we don't have knowledge of-NO. There are natural laws we are familiar with like, Newton's law of gravity, Biogenesis, Kepler's laws of planetary motion, and the like. There are spiritual laws that exist as well. The laws of marriage, faith, sowing and reaping, sin and death- you get the picture. If I stand on a 20 story building beside a WW who is a devout skinhead and we both fall off side of the building with nothing breaking our falls, we both come down irregardless of who we are, what we believe in, whether we are good women etc. We are both in all likelyhood going to be seriously hurt. Likewise, when a person tithes and gives the passages in Mal. 3:8 become active- irregardless to the ppl doing the giving/tithing. Get this, laws, no matter what kind, don't have to be believed in, understood by us, nada, to be effective. They work once activated no matter what.. The only variable being the differing degrees of spiritual laws.

Please understand that life is not fair. God is not a fair god (fairness tends to be a largely human concept like ethnicities and all of these different religions) . God is righteous and declares that over and over again in his word. Think of righteousness vs fairness in terms of wealth vs rich, or wisdom vs smart/ knowledgable, or in LHCF terms full healthy APL vs 3 strings of see through, chewed up BSL. You feelin' me? So, in the end and or at the appointed time he will exact righteousness for all.

So yes, there are real barriers that do exist but a lot of the things that hold us back are from us to us. That's one heck of a bitter pill to swallow. The good news is today, right now we can start to sow good seeds to bring forth good harvests.

Check your heart, check your giving, check your love walk, check your living, check your prayer life, check your kin and friends. You will find out why you struggle.

BTW- I've thanked those posts that stated other known factors explaining the real unfairness ppl of color experience.

 

[Detroit2Dallas]

I dont agree with the above statement, not with Blacks. I have my own opinion, but since I'm nursing a head ache currently I'm just not in the mood to type a whole bunch. I dont believe blacks are cursed nor do I believe that we arent givers and tithers and other races are.

 

[Shimmie]

I dont agree with the above statement, not with Blacks. I have my own opinion, but since I'm nursing a head ache currently I'm just not in the mood to type a whole bunch. I dont believe blacks are cursed nor do I believe that we arent givers and tithers and other races are.

In Jesus' Name, you are healed and relieved of the total cause of the headache.

Thank you Lord Jesus for easing the tension in our sister's system, let your Blood flow freely to each and every area which needs your heaing touch, without and throughout her body and all and whom surrounds her.

Let all around her, be at your loving peace.

For this we thank you with all of our hearts... Amen and Amein...

Drink some water, precious one. Small sips, which will help cleanse the toxins from your system.

 

[Detroit2Dallas]

Thanks Shimmie, I actually started to feel better before I read that comment and then I saw and thanked your post.

 

[charmingt]

Remember, Christ has redeemed us from the 'curse' of the law as it is written "Cursed is anyone that hangeth from a tree." Jesus bore ALL curses and anything else for each individual. So we are redeemed. So redeemed. Jesus is the curse breaker. I must believe on Him.

 

[softblackcotton]

Jesus came and set the captives free. You go to heaven based upon your own heart and G-d's mercy to the individual. Nobody is grandfathered into salvation. It's a matter of colonial advantage? I don't believe so imho, it's a matter of perspective. Y'all know I am Native American...Black Native American...but still Native mindset. They have no advantage...they are like naughty little children. We are still waiting for them to grow up and become men and women and to stop harming the earth that sustains us all as well as to stop killing their brothers. How is someone who is hell-bent on destruction at any type of advantage? That is evil. You know, we have prophecies about a white brother who would come in the end of times who would bring healing the world over but he would not be like the other white "brothers." Before somebody else goes on this "why Jesus gottabe white?" His icons and other historical images from that time frame, long before Europeans left their caves to get unified religion. St. Luke painted his mother and him, the historian Josephus gave descriptions of his appearance etc....but some of the apostles were certainly BLACK. Jesus was not...but that's beside the point, actually. This is just my stance.

They have no advantage if life is far beyond just the physical. The punishments occurred way back in history with the expulsions from Israel into Babylonian captivity. The Jews have been slaves many times. But there is certainly evidence in scripture that a people would be taken from Africa to another land in chains. It didn't indicate they were Jewish (if I'm not mistaken...I've read the Chabadniks on this issue before). Unless you have Jewish ancestry, you are not Israel. Of course, there's spiritual Israel that has been grated into that vine via the church and the salvation that has come through the Son of David. The slavs of Europe felt the same exact way for centuries. I know this has hit people of color...but it wasn't the case until these imperialists came in and began their perpetual destruction. G-d didn't design Black people to be under anybody else and it's not always been the case.

But OP, please do not misunderstand, I know exactly how you feel. I look at it differently now. G-d will have an answer some day. But we are not cursed. How can you love G-d and be cursed? Everytime I look at something on television, I see Black people are automatically start praising G-d for their blessings! It's in the language, the expression, the living. I know others get embarassed but I see it as a blessed people.

Excellent answer Guitarhero

 

[StarScream35]

@softblackcotton

I have asked these very same questions over various times in my life without ever getting any clear answers. I have prayed and asked God, I have asked Christians with no clear answer. Christians say god judges everyone. Blacks say we are hated because we are strong and mighty...........REALLY??? Almost everywhere blacks go, they are hated for no apparent reason. We are the most physically different looking group of all compared to the rest of the races and people let us know it. I have often wondered about this. Why the stark difference? Among ourselves, we cannot get along. We seek to destroy each other regardless of where we are located. Whether it be Africa, America, UK or Caribbean. We are in a mess. Our men have almost no respect for us, our women have no respect for themselves. We celebrate music that talks about us in degrading ways and talks about murdering people. We allow other races who hate us to make loads of money off us by using their hair and defending the use of using their hair. I mean this makes no sense to me. Why the heck am I wearing a woman from India's hair????? I can grow my own hair. Please tell me that black people are intelligent enough to know they can grow their own hair? Why am I repeatedly spending my money at Korean beauty stores when clearly the customer service is subpar and clearly they hate us? Do black people realize the economic power they can have by just using their brains and pooling money within their community? We could shut these Asian/Indian stores down in our neighborhoods by pooling our money in our own communities. And why is there so much violence among blacks? Blacks have killed more of each other than the klan ever did. I get so sick of hearing blacks committing violence against each other and against others. Can't you do something else like get an education! I mean we need educated black men in our community but they choose thugism and violence. I just don't get it and I do wonder.................are we cursed?

 

[Guitarhero]

@softblackcotton

I have asked these very same questions over various times in my life without ever getting any clear answers. I have prayed and asked God, I have asked Christians with no clear answer. Christians say god judges everyone. Blacks say we are hated because we are strong and mighty...........REALLY??? Almost everywhere blacks go, they are hated for no apparent reason. We are the most physically different looking group of all compared to the rest of the races and people let us know it. I have often wondered about this. Why the stark difference? Among ourselves, we cannot get along. We seek to destroy each other regardless of where we are located. Whether it be Africa, America, UK or Caribbean. We are in a mess.

As evidence of being cursed...as in Black being ugly or deformed and odious? Do you realize that all men came from Black people...all of them and that Black is the base color of all cultures and races of man? The ancient Chinese were Black etc.

I understand why when I realize that people generally go by their own experiences and view of importance - i.e., an American point of view. It bases its view of Black people from Transatlantic times. All of the social problems one sees are a direct result - a lasting one at that - of that slavery. What, there are no success stories? No moral Blacks? No individuals? Just criminals, idiots and immorals, huh?

Do people even realize that the Hebrews just released from Egypt were the same and it took centuries for them to progress into the highly cultured society they came to be? Blacks in Africa...were not the same and of the same (social problems) we see today. That is largely the result of colonialism. This idea of cursing Black people is a white man's invention. Few people know what it truly means and they are not studying the ancient writings to find it out what it refers to.

I think it's anti-christian to even suggest that Black people are cursed and to equate them nothing more than animals simply to point out that there are bad social conditions today in which people are murdering each other. It's directly related to colonialism. This is the legacy. If Blacks are cursed simply for being victimized by that, then Whites are more cursed because they are going to pay collectively in hell for eternity for all they and their ancestors have done to harm this earth. And just by dna, who can draw the line in the universe on who is Black and who is not? Does G-d go by the same as man?

Please don't let your frustrations spit in G-d's face. He's incapable of hating His own creation. Surely, there is hatred of the darker ones. There's hatred of the whitest ones as well in many cultures. And there are more people other than "blacks" who are greatly oppressed in this world. BTW, lots of cultures add hair to their own to make a style...using mud, yak (Mongolia), beads, shells, other animal hair...and hair from other people. Consider the high-society Egyptians who shaved their heads but wore wigs. Go figure.

 

[FlyyBohemian]

God is no respecter of persons. Some of the most evil people in this world are filthy rich and that doesn't mean anything to God. Material wealth is not a definite sign of God's favor and I think some ministers in the modern church are sending out that flawed idea. Blessings from God are more spiritual than physical. We are not cursed as a people, but cursed are those who rebel against God with unrepentant hearts in spite of color or ethnicity.

 

[Twinspired]

I've wondered about this too. Blacks (women) are often the worse case scenario with a lot of diseases: obesity, breast cancer, hiv, lupus the list just goes on and on. I always wonder why....

Sent from my PC36100 using PC36100

 

[loulou7]

My mom use to get this question a lot when she gave Bible studies. She would have the people to turn to Genesis 10:6-20. This is where we can start tracing the people of color in the human race, after the flood.

Of course, when you look at Genesis 2:13 you see that Africa had a major role in the location of the Garden of Eden…

By the way, there is no such thing as races; there is only one race of people. When you look at other cultures, you mightn't want to believe that those are your relatives, but Ham, Shem, and Japheth were brothers and every one of us living on this planet is from their seed.

When you look at our descendants in The Scriptures, you will see that people of color were very blessed. In fact the Canaanites owned the land that flowed with milk and honey. Through disobedience, it was finally given to the Israelites.

G-d blessed Nimrod, with great power and might. He founded Babylon; he built the first skyscraper (The tower of Babel). He built Nineveh and more. As you trace Ham's descendants throughout the Bible, you will see that God bless them with the best.

They were at the beginning of G-d's blessings in the Bible, while the Jewish people were enslaved. But unfortunately, some of our descendants were very rebellions and lost the land flowing with milk and honey. When you study The Word, with a Bible Concordance, you will see how we are interwoven all through the Old and New Testaments.

Today, things - such as poor choices, institutional racism, etc… And more importantly, living in a sinful world, has caused a lot of heartache and injustices.

But no one goes unscathed, when you disobey.

You even see how when the Jewish people became rebellious, they were scattered, as The Scripture predicted and they lost their land in Israel. They were never supposed to lose their land and the fighting that is going on between them and the Palestinians is epic.

You also see in The Word how when they rebelled, they were carried away to foreign lands, or were invaded and conquered by the Romans. Some scholars feel that the Holocaust is part of the Jewish people's punishment for their ancestors crucifying Christ.

And there is a day coming when every nation, kindred, tongue, and people will be judged for what they have done, whether it is good or evil. For all have sin and come short of the glory of G-d.

So we have to trust God when He says that He love everybody and that all the wrongs will be recompensed. He is no repsect of person.

Let's just individually make wise decisions. And we can only do this by following Proverbs 3:5-6.

 

[PinkPeony]

No I truly believe we are very much loved by God. Weren't the Jews God's people and look at their trials.

 

[aribell]

I don't want to argue, but I thought this was a really important subject and wished I had read through the thread sooner. My answer to the op: YES and I appreciate your willingness to ask the question because it forces us to look beyond the physical and see spiritually. It also tests us on how well we understand how the Lord actually moves versus how we would like Him to move. The #1 obstacle to our perception of these things is our insistence on a politically correct theology. It has been ingrained in us that every "culture" (man made set of traditions) has to be held equal relative to one another and treated the same and judged with kid gloves. This is hindering us.

Please understand that life is not fair. God is not a fair god (fairness tends to be a largely human concept like ethnicities and all of these different religions) . God is righteous and declares that over and over again in his word.

This bears repeating. God is not "fair". He operates according to His own plans and purposes. One might cry "unfair!" at the fact that He commanded that Abraham send Ishmael and Hagar away--after all, what had they done? But it was not fitting that Ishmael inherit alongside Isaac, and so the Lord commanded that it be done. Now, had Abraham not sinned, it wouldn't have been an issue at all, but nevertheless God still allowed Ishmael to bear the consequences of Abraham's sin, and His blessing remained upon Abraham through Isaac, and was not given to Ishmael.

I think it's anti-christian to even suggest that Black people are cursed and to equate them nothing more than animals simply to point out that there are bad social conditions today in which people are murdering each other. It's directly related to colonialism. This is the legacy. If Blacks are cursed simply for being victimized by that, then Whites are more cursed because they are going to pay collectively in hell for eternity for all they and their ancestors have done to harm this earth. And just by dna, who can draw the line in the universe on who is Black and who is not? Does G-d go by the same as man?

We must have a longterm, global view of things. The West did some terrible things in the name of colonialization, but the West has also been largely responsible for the spread of the Gospel around the world. This is a GOOD thing. Otherwise, the majority of us wouldn't be sitting here able to speak of the Lord, as we likely wouldn't know Him. In the grand scheme of things, the spread of the Gospel is the MOST IMPORTANT thing when you consider the immanence of the Lord's return. God uses people and nations to accomplish His purposes--even if those He is using are themselves bad. I'm not going to go into the verses, but there are prophetic passages in which the Lord talks about using Nebuchadnezzar to bring judgment on the Israelites for their sin and disobedience, and then He says He will turn around and judge Nebuchadnezzar as well. It was a both-and kind of a situation--yes, bad things were happening to Israel specifically because the Lord had ordained it through a chosen vessel; but that didn't mean the vessel was good--in time Nebuchadnezzar would receive his due from God as well. So we should not get caught up in assigning blame based on which countries did what, when, how, or to whom. That's the short term view. All peoples and nations have come, are coming, or will come under the Lord's judgement and the only way to withstand it is to be covered in Christ's blood. Again, every nation and group is accountable to the Lord in judgment, and the only way to escape destruction is to spread the Gospel and return to Him in obedience.

Now, with respect to black people, many speculate as to the particular reasons why, but I don't know if identifying the source is as important as recognizing that a curse is in effect. Individual Christians may be redeemed out of it by claiming Christ's victory for them, but that doesn't speak to what is going on in the rest of the culture. Black people are not merely victims. They actually cooperate with what is evil. For instance, when the US Gov't said that families couldn't receive welfare if a man was in the home, many simply left and abdicated their responsibility. They didn't stay and fight for their children. They didn't try to find a better way, they said, "OK, I'll let the gov't take care of them then." And that's still exactly what is happening today. So, this goes beyond people being passively victimized. There's a whole web of attitudes, beliefs, emotions, etc. that work together to cooperate with the undermining of the AA community. We support artists that promote the most vile, ungodly things, justify failures, and so on and so forth. To not make this US-centric I could start talking about AIDS in Africa and who's responsible mainly for its spread (unfaithful men), but that is another story.

As I understand it, a curse is a type of spiritual "right of access" given to Satan and evil spirits to bind and wreak havoc in a person's life...or in the life of a group of people. You see it when, try as you might, bad stuff just keeps assailing. Think of Job--was he cursed? Not exactly, but the Lord had given Satan specific permission to turn his world upside down--and Satan had to ask first! In that case, the Lord said yes in order to prove Job's faithfulness, but sins, certain sins in particular, can also lead to being cursed. For example:

Cursing Israel

Genesis 12:3: "And I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed."

Illegitimate Birth

2(A) "No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD.

Idol Worship

Exodus 20:4-5 "..visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children even unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me".

The ancestors of black people were not Christian--they worshipped all sorts of idols and spirits and practiced religions which are wholly contrary to God's Word. This incites His judgment. No, it's not culturally sensitive, but it is true. And yes, it matters. And Native Americans--both in North and South America are examples as well. Or, we could consider India too. If the Lord would allow His own covenant people to be destroyed save for a remnant, why would any other people group be spared His judgment? And again, the Lord used evil nations to bring His wrath. I think He does the same today. The unjust nations will also receive their due.

As far as I understand it, outside of Christ--meaning outside of active faith in His blood to cover you to make you acceptable to God--the condemnation of the law remains. Jesus didn't do away with the Lord's requirements, He fulfilled them. So I believe all the things the Lord says are curses in the OT are still curses, but unlike OT times, you can be redeemed from them through the righteousness of faith in Christ. Otherwise, His law will operate just as He said that it would. And I think that's exactly what is happening in the black community.

What black people need is the Gospel in truth. Not these fake, money hungry shepherds, not "prosperity", but truth. We need black people covered in His blood and pleading that blood night and day.

To show I'm not self-hating, I will also say that the star of the West is fading. I pray for the United States, for I believe we can yet be redeemed and kept separate. But God's favor upon the Christian West is departing just as the West has departed from Him. And as Christianity continues to explode in the global South, we will see what the Lord does. But, the battle between Isaac and Ishmael will be the last.

Leviticus 26:39-42

39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.

40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;

41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:

42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

 

[Guitarhero]

We must have a longterm, global view of things. The West did some terrible things in the name of colonialization, but the West has also been largely responsible for the spread of the Gospel around the world. This is a GOOD thing. Otherwise, the majority of us wouldn't be sitting here able to speak of the Lord, as we likely wouldn't know Him. ........ So we should not get caught up in assigning blame based on which countries did what, when, how, or to whom. That's the short term view. All peoples and nations have come, are coming, or will come under the Lord's judgement and the only way to withstand it is to be covered in Christ's blood. Again, every nation and group is accountable to the Lord in judgment, and the only way to escape destruction is to spread the Gospel and return to Him in obedience.


The ancestors of black people were not Christian--they worshipped all sorts of idols and spirits and practiced religions which are wholly contrary to God's Word. This incites His judgment. No, it's not culturally sensitive, but it is true. And yes, it matters. And Native Americans--both in North and South America are examples as well. .

My view of the world is so large and global, it goes beyond what I've been erroneously taught by those in power who mislead for their own vain glories. I don't know Jesus because of the bible-bearing imperialists. Some of my family still don't know him right now. Do I fear for their souls? Absolutely not. They are in Creator's hands. I do not feel blessed because some white people came over here for a meeting with the bible in their hands, the lights went out, and we were holding the bible while they were holding the land when the lights came back on. erplexed I'd rather they hadn't come at all. The ancestors of black people were not Christian? Most of the invading ancestors of whites weren't either. However, not quite true. The ancestors of Jesus weren't christians either.

I think you are attempting to point to the largely non-christian ancestors of Blacks in the Americas, as in W. Africa. Because, christianity is 2,000 years old in Africa, in general, Judaism is 3,500 years old and Islam is roughly 1,450 years old. ....all in Africa...the ancestors of black people. I see that was an oversight. They knew the same G-d. My Native people were often told we didn't know G-d. Yes, we did...it was the other way around, in fact. I am not privileged to have Christ in the face of all the evil committed. I am privileged because Christ preserved me and we survived to this day. Tatanka Iyotanka (Sitting Bull) said..." If the Great Spirit had desired me to be a white man, he would have made me so in the first place....You think I am a fool, but you are a greater fool than I am....I was very sorry when I found out that your intentions were good and not what I supposed they were...It is not necessary for eagles to be crows." G-d has always upheld justice and fairness and so to attempt to demonstrate that injustice has its perks because we get to know Jesus is a travesty, imho. Which image of Christ do people have? They cannot even admit He was a Jew so they replace them and stand in their places...not truly comprehending the history behind "neither Greek nor Jew." Historical context... leads to all kinds of misguided mayhem in the "name of Jesus."

Again, I'd rather not have had these invaders bring their "christianity" with them because it has wreaked havoc on our world. Although Christ told them to spread the good news (of peace and spiritual abundance) ...they spread smallpox and death instead..and low self-esteem. That does not equate with the good news. Of course, individuals actually spread the gospel of Christ when they lived it, counteracting the fake imposters...I speak of the Quakers, but those stood up to the powers that be, placing their lives on the line. erplexed Can't say the catholics were prime g-dly examples, neither were the protestant Scots-Irish nor Welsh and certainly not the British. Boarding schools?

Perspective? Hell, yes. We can support the Messiah of the world without supporting the evil and misguided cretons who forced it down the throats of millions, in an attempt to gain political and economic control of the world. Christ's mandate wasn't for monetary gain and white supremacy. He doesn't overlook the fact that people have hijacked His name and word. Subterfuge and coercion via death is not the gospel. ohwell: As far as some curse, I'm from Shem being that I descend from Jews in my mix. I'm not under a curse. G-d judges me singularly.

Say what you will, but I will NEVER see your lopside of this issue and I don't feel guilty in the least and never will. I don't have to know Jesus to go to heaven. In the words of Larry David of Seinfeld, "what is it about christians who want everyone else to do what they do? It's like this, I like lobster but I don't go around the world trying to forcibly convert everybody else to like lobster." Spreading the gospel is actually a different affair...and few are those that abide within the intended guidelines. If they'd spend more time eating humble pie rather than judging the existence and intent of others, they'd see that they, in their christian state, are still big sinners. And if they valued the words of Christ concerning good and evil, they'd not do what they did and are still doing in many cases of covert spy missionary organizations. Christians are largely responsible for the problems we see today in Africa and the Americas, Australia and Melanesia. Truth hurts. Mother Mary calls all people her children...christian and not.

 

[Guitarhero]

Before I retire for the very late evening...another thing comes to mind. If people are treating Black people like G-d's beloved who walked away from Him, hence receiving a curse...I thought it was mentioned that Blacks were not g-dly people in the first place and that their ancestors were pagans. Shrugs. They were never His sons, then...so why not have this curse upon fellow pagans...say...Hindus...Dalits (another beleaguered people) ...um...say...Druids? If Black people have come to Christ 3,500 years after that pronouncement, how would that apply to them retroactively? Isn't G-d fair?...and that equates with honesty and justness. If we apply the following to His nature of unfairness, how would He be just and honest but partial yet, impartial...i.e. sticking it to Blacks and not to others? When did people collectively stop worshipping Him to receive this curse... those who support this interpretation of Ham, Israel etc. turning from G-d and receiving a curse? I thought they were lucky to have the gospel and received it? So, He doesn't reward our good behavior?


Merriam-Webster

a : marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism <a very fair person to do business with> b (1) : conforming with the established rules : allowed (2) : consonant with merit or importance : due <a fair share>


Yet, it's been proclaimed that G-d is not fair. He's not just and honest, impartial and non-favoritist? He doesn't operate (not saying held by) within His own established rules for us? You do good, you receive the benefits of doing good? Proverbs is full of those examples and admonitions.

As to the question of why G-d allows some to suffer injustices...we're part of His creation. We are allowed a role in it and it's up to us to institute justice and fairness for all men. He's waiting on US to do it. We are His hands and if there's lack, it's because we have dropped the ball (all humans). The suffering of Black people and others? And opportunity for the world to suffer just a little bit of what He suffered in redemption. Suffering is often a big blessing.

 

[aribell]

Before I retire for the very late evening...another thing comes to mind. If people are treating Black people like G-d's beloved who walked away from Him, hence receiving a curse...I thought it was mentioned that Blacks were not g-dly people in the first place and that their ancestors were pagans. Shrugs. They were never His sons, then...so why not have this curse upon fellow pagans...say...Hindus...Dalits (another beleaguered people) ...um...say...Druids? If Black people have come to Christ 3,500 years after that pronouncement, how would that apply to them retroactively? Isn't G-d fair?...and that equates with honesty and justness. If we apply the following to His nature of unfairness, how would He be just and honest but partial yet, impartial...i.e. sticking it to Blacks and not to others? When did people collectively stop worshipping Him to receive this curse... those who support this interpretation of Ham, Israel etc. turning from G-d and receiving a curse? I thought they were lucky to have the gospel and received it? So, He doesn't reward our good behavior?

The vast majority of people in India are under tremendous amounts of suffering. There are millions of people treated like the scum of the earth right now because their last name isn't the "right" type. And society has pronounced that it will be that way for all their children as well. I don't see that black people have been singled out--three major continents--South America, Africa, and India--were dominated by colonialism. All have incredible poverty and destitution in ways that pretty much look exactly like the descriptions the Lord uses in Isaiah or other prophetic books to show what Israel will experience due to His wrath. This isn't looking at one tragic event--a building falling down or someone getting in an accident. It's about the fate of nations on the whole, and that is undoubtedly spiritual. (fallen angels having dominion over principalities and powers, including places, i.e., the king of tyre, the prince of persia)

You know, I think that really looking at how the Lord operated in Scripture makes the fact that He brings judgment on the nations pretty clear. Who is judged when and how and what have you is in His hand. A lot of arguments are made based on our ideas of what ought to be, but all I'm saying that it's simply there in Scripture. I'm sure most of us could write pages about what we think should happen and our opinion of certain peoples and cultures. But the ultimate question is how has God shown Himself to regard these things? Regarding fairness or impartiality--you know, the Lord does say, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy," meaning that He doesn't have to meet our standard of fairness. He is the standard. But even so, we are looking at but a sliver of time in His eyes. What other nations who have worked injustice will receive tomorrow is in His mind alone.

Even if one dispenses with the idea of a "curse," God's judgment is real. In fact, we can throw the idea of curse out the window and maybe Scripture is clearer. He judges iniquity, period. That includes false religion. And it's not just for the end of the age. And I believe that to tell people that "it's okay, you know God too on your own," is deceiving. If Jesus came to God's chosen people and many rejected Him, therefore rejecting salvation, why would any other people somehow have salvation aside from embracing Him? Again, no one the Israelites encountered (except for Abraham meeting Melchizedek (who remains a mystery)) were considered to be true worshippers of God. If you can show me where that was ever the case, I will gladly hear it. All nations are invited to be grafted into the tree, but they must be grafted in. They don't have it on their own. Or, as another parable indicates, all the birds (which symbolize the nations) will come and rest in the branches of the tree. But they must come. And to come, someone must call them to do so.

Mary may call all people her children, Christian or not--but God does not, and it's Him, not Mary, that people people must be reconciled to.

 

[Guitarhero]

. But even so, we are looking at but a sliver of time in His eyes. What other nations who have worked injustice will receive tomorrow is in His mind alone.

Even if one dispenses with the idea of a "curse," God's judgment is real. In fact, we can throw the idea of curse out the window and maybe Scripture is clearer. He judges iniquity, period. That includes false religion.

Then He obviously doesn't care that I live my life for Him, He's just going to "curse" me anyway, no matter that I follow Him. He's definitely a respecter of persons because He has a penchant to stick it to me because I'm "black." Mind you, I'm from the United States or better, Turtle Island...but somehow, it's one of those Black African countries that is drawing me to my doomsday date with justice because of the chicken bone bowl reading by some homo erectus eons ago. If He has given freedom and redemption, it is FINISHED, bound to the cross. Countries do suffer judgments...however, I don't belong to one of those yet. With all the diversity in Africa, are we truly saying they are "one" people and deserve a curse?

All I'm saying is that it doesn't quite make sense to me...is not a logical explanation. That was a specific time in history and it has already come to pass for those populations in Asia...Babylon, the diaspora etc. It's not applying to "black" people worldwide. Because, remember, those "Blacks" were pagans to begin with so how could they have been sons of G-d for turning away to apply? They would have just joined their fellow pagan kin in their supposed non-cursed state.

There is certainly prejudice and a whole lot of it worldwide...but that's just it...it was predicted it would grow. Maybe this is what we're seeing? It's a result of infectious jealousies, insecurities, hatred, economics, psychology and mostly socialization etc. If we truly look at history, whites were at the bottom of everything. I guess the first will be last and the last first. But to so willingly apply a "curse" to people is ridiculous to me. I don't know of any Africans personally who believe this, christian, Jewish, Muslim or animist etc. There could be some, I've just never ever encountered one acquaintance nor friend with this belief and it leads me to believe this is a regional idea born out of those who are the sons of slaves to make sense out of their oppressed history, as well as to apply a hyped up sense of importance in the grand scheme of history.

Africa was just fine until Transatlantic slavery hit them as the tables turned while they sold their chattle. This is a recent history, not ancient. India was just fine and glorious...so was Persia. You look at Europe with the vandals, the slavs, the Macedonian wars...it was a huge mess forever with untold human suffering. There are countless more histories and peoples who share in greater persecutions and oppressions than Black Americans and Caribbeans.

AIDS/HIV in Africa is a result of attitude of sex since most women who are contracting it are faithful spouses. G-d doesn't force the penis to contract it from a curse. People are actively responsible for their infection rates. Again, a recent history in disease development. Shrugs. I guess we all will believe what we will but this discounts the great achievements that African Americans have brought to the world technology and philosophy. Shrugs. As for false religion, I'm lucky, I guess. That base is definitely covered and the one I had before wasn't false either because He walked with us...unless one considers the false one doctored up and hijacked by Europeans. I look within and don't follow something just because another says to. I think the scriptures warn us of such.

 

[Guitarhero]

Regarding Marian apparitions...it's the idea that the world is one and that we are all G-d's children. Remember, there are various meanings in scripture. On the one hand, we're all G-d's children..but those who follow His ways are another type of son and daughter. It demonstrates a reciprocal relationship. All of us are surrounded by G-d's presence (non-reciprocal for many) until we go to hell where it is removed. The call is for unity and peace which we have failed at miserably throughout the ages to comprehend. We still do not comprehend the Prophets and sages, certainly not Jesus, when we go against Him at every grain. Our collective sin worldwide is the reason for misery and it's up to us to fix it.

 

[Shimmie]

AIDS/HIV in Africa is a result of attitude of sex since most women who are contracting it are faithful spouses.

Question: For you and anyone else who may have an answer.

Most African men have more than one wife (Polygamy) which has been a tradition since... 'always' ??? (even in Biblical times polygamy was their 'norm'?

What were the STD's then? I know there had to be something for the men were going from one woman to another. The hygiene for both men and women was not at the advantage that we are priviledged to have 'today', yet in 'our' time STD's are in epidemic proportions.

How were STD's back then? HIV / AIDS just popped up from out of 'nowhere' (so to speak). Sexual promiscurity didn't just evolve, it's been going on for centuries. So why 'now' the epidemic proportions of STD's?

Anyone have an answer or a theory?

 

[Guitarhero]

Question: For you and anyone else who may have an answer.

Most African men have more than one wife (Polygamy) which has been a tradition since... 'always' ??? (even in Biblical times polygamy was their 'norm'?

What were the STD's then? I know there had to be something for the men were going from one woman to another. The hygiene for both men and women was not at the advantage that we are priviledged to have 'today', yet in 'our' time STD's are in epidemic proportions.

How were STD's back then? HIV / AIDS just popped up from out of 'nowhere' (so to speak). Sexual promiscurity didn't just evolve, it's been going on for centuries. So why 'now' the epidemic proportions of STD's?

Anyone have an answer or a theory?

HIV is actually a very old virus. I personally think it was manipulated somehow but that might find its way into conspiracy theories. There have been many STD's that have taken life. I agree that it was common for African men to have several wives. Of course, when Europeans colonized the place, they imposed their "religious" more's so I think it just fell to mistresses. Same old same old. I mean, was the Bubonic plague a curse? Tape worm? Dysentery? HIV became able to kill the host and pass through blood and semen...it's just how it evolved...imho. I'm pretty sure there were std's way back then...well, we do know of syphillis and gonorrhea. The common cold? Diseases contracted through sex or genetic etc., they are all just diseases.

As for hygiene...heck, all that dirt and lack of chemicals might have afforded them extra protection. Who knows if sodium lauryl sulphate has killed us today. You know, they didn't over-farm the land (in most cases..andhwen societies did, they died off or moved). The ground had more mineral content. I dunno...could be environmental. Look at MRSA. We've made it worse through the misuse of antibiotics.

As for my participation in this thread, I'm not trying to argue...I'm looking at all the points for a logical explanation first. It's just how I operate. In other words, I don't automatically see a spiritual cause first.

 

[Shimmie]

HIV is actually a very old virus. I personally think it was manipulated somehow but that might find its way into conspiracy theories. There have been many STD's that have taken life.

I agree that it was common for African men to have several wives. Of course, when Europeans colonized the place, they imposed their "religious" more's so I think it just fell to mistresses. Same old same old. I mean, was the Bubonic plague a curse? Tape worm? Dysentery? HIV became able to kill the host and pass through blood and semen...it's just how it evolved...imho. I'm pretty sure there were std's way back then...well, we do know of syphillis and gonorrhea. The common cold? Diseases contracted through sex or genetic etc., they are all just diseases.

As for hygiene...heck, all that dirt and lack of chemicals might have afforded them extra protection. Who knows if sodium lauryl sulphate has killed us today. You know, they didn't over-farm the land (in most cases..andhwen societies did, they died off or moved). The ground had more mineral content. I dunno...could be environmental. Look at MRSA. We've made it worse through the misuse of antibiotics.

Thanks Guitar... I'm trying to establish the disease trails.

ETA: There is both a spiritual and a natural law in effect connecting to this thread topic.