Is the Devil in Charge of Hell?

[sweetvi]

This has brought a new revelation for me. For my whole life...I was taught people were being punished in hell as we speak and that everyone including the devil will be thrown in everlasting fire!

However doing this study changes everything I knew. Shimmie Laela Leigh moni and everyone else. AtlantaJJ. Help! LOL

It teaches that :

1. Everyone who dies are in their graves waiting for the second death which is judgment day
2. There is no everlasting fire nor are their any torment in Hell

3. Hell does not exist until Judgment day. The Devil is on earth. However the word Hades has been interchangeable with the word He'll, so IMO the confusion lies there?



Lesson #11
Well? Does God really keep the devil on His payroll - is he the chief superintendent of hell measuring out the punishment of the lost? Nearly the entire world holds a very unbiblical view about hell, and you owe it to yourself to know what the Bible really says about it. Don't be fooled, because what you think about hell certainly affects what you think about God's character! Take a few moments to get the amazing facts you need to know today!

The wicked will not be punished until after the judgment.

1. How many lost souls are being punished in hell today?

"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9.

Answer:***There is not one single soul in hellfire today. The Bible says that God reserves, or holds back, the wicked until the day of judgment to be punished.


Sinners will be cast into hellfire at the end of the world -- not when they die.

2. When will sinners be cast into hellfire?

"So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matthew 13:40-42. "The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.

Answer:***Sinners will be cast into hellfire at the great judgment day at the end of the world--not when they die. God would not punish a person in fire until his case was tried and decided in court at the end of the world. Nor would God burn a murderer who died 5,000 years ago 5,000 years longer than one who dies and deserves punishment for the same sin today.


All who have died, both good and evil, are in their graves awaiting the resurrection.

3. Where are sinners (who have died) now?

"The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28, 29. "The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction." "Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb." Job 21:30, 32.

Answer:***The Bible is specific. Both the wicked and the righteous who have died are in their graves "sleeping" until the resurrection day.


Jesus died to save us from our sins. Those who do not accept His gift of salvation will receive death.

4. What is the end result of sin?

"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23. "Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." James 1:15. "God ... gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

Answer:***The wages (or punishment) for sin is death, not everlasting life in hellfire. The wicked "perish," or receive "death." The righteous receive "everlasting life."!

 

[sweetvi]

5. What will happen to the wicked in hellfire?

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.

Answer:***The wicked die the second death in hellfire. If the wicked lived forever being tortured in hell, they would be immortal. But this is impossible, because the Bible says God "only hath immortality." 1 Timothy 6:16. When Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden of Eden, an angel was posted to guard the tree of life so that sinners would not eat of the tree and "live for ever." Genesis 3:22-24. The teaching that sinners are immortal in hell originated with Satan and is completely untrue. God prevented this when sin entered this earth by guarding the tree of life.

Bible Clear - Wicked Obliterated
The Bible says the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalms 37:20), will "burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalms 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalms 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalms 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalms 62:3). God will "destroy" them (Psalms 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalms 21:9). Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery.


At the end of the world, fire will fall from heaven upon the wicked and devour them.

6. When and how will hellfire be kindled?

"So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man ... shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matthew 13:40-42. "They went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:9. "The righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner." Proverbs 11:31.

Answer:***At the end of the world, God Himself will kindle hellfire. As the holy city comes down from God out of heaven (Revelation 21:2), the wicked attempt to capture it. At that time, God will rain down fire from heaven upon the earth, and it will devour the wicked. This fire is Bible hellfire.


Hell will be the entire world on fire. It will be 25,000 miles in circumference--its heat so great that everything on earth will be "burned up".

7. How big and how hot will hellfire be?

"The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10.

Answer:***Hellfire will be just as big as this earth because it will be the earth on fire. This fire will be so hot as to melt the earth and burn up all "the works that are therein." The atmospheric heavens will explode and "pass away with a great noise."


Jesus will insist upon just treatment for the wicked. Their degree of punishment will be fair and according to their works, as He promised.

8. How long will the wicked suffer in the fire?

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12. "And then he shall reward every man according to his works." Matthew 16:27. "That servant, which knew his lord's will, and ... neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes." Luke 12:47, 48.

Answer:***The Bible does not tell how long the wicked will be punished before receiving death in the fire. God does specifically state, however, that all will be punished according to their deeds. This means some will receive greater punishment than others, based upon their works.


God will recreate a new world where no trace of the former evils of this world will be seen.

9. Will the fire eventually go out?

"Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." Isaiah 47:14. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth." "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:1, 4.

Answer:***Yes, indeed, the Bible specifically teaches that hellfire will go out and that there will not be left "a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." The Bible also teaches that in God's new kingdom all "former things" will be passed away. Hell, being one of the former things, is included, so we have God's promise that it will be abolished.

Is God a Torturer?
If God tortured His enemies in a fiery horror chamber throughout eternity, He would be more vicious and heartless than men have ever been in the worst of war atrocities. An eternal hell of torment would be hell for God also, who loves even the vilest sinner.


The fires will burn until only ashes are left. Even the bones will be completely gone.

 

[sweetvi]

The fires will burn until only ashes are left. Even the bones will be completely gone.

10. What will be left when the fire goes out?

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1, 3.

Answer:***Notice the verse does not say the wicked will burn like asbestos, as many today believe, but rather like stubble, which will be burned up. The little word "up" denotes completion. Nothing but ashes will be left when the fire goes out. In Psalms 37:10, 20, the Bible says the wicked will go up in smoke and be completely destroyed.


The fire from heaven will fall upon the wicked and destroy them, both body and soul.

11. Will the wicked enter hell in bodily form and be destroyed both soul and body?

"It is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." Matthew 5:30. "Rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20.

Answer:***Yes. Real, live people enter hell in bodily form and are destroyed both soul and body. The fire from God out of heaven will fall upon real people and blot them out of existence.


The devil will be completely destroyed by fire.

12. Will the devil be in charge of hellfire?

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:10. "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. ... And never shall thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:18, 19.

Answer:***Absolutely not! The devil will be cast into the fire, and it will turn him into ashes.



13. Does the word "hell" as used in the Bible always refer to a place of burning or punishment?

Answer:***No, the word "hell" is used 54 times in the Bible, and in only 12 cases does it refer to "a place of burning."

The word "hell" is translated from several different words with various meanings, as indicated below:


IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
31 times from "Sheol," which means the grave."

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
10 times from "Hades," which means "the grave."
12 times from "Gehenna," which means "the place of burning."
*1 time from "Tartarus," which means "a place of darkness."
54 TIMES TOTAL


Note: The Greek word "Gehenna" (mentioned above) is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Ge-Hinnom," which means the "Valley of Hinnom." This valley, which lies immediately south and west of Jerusalem, was a place where dead animals, garbage, and other refuse were dumped. Fire burned constantly, as it does at modern sanitation dump sites. The Bible uses "Gehenna" or the "Valley of Hinnom" as a symbol of the fire that will destroy the lost at the end of time. The fire of Gehenna was not unending. Otherwise it would be still burning southwest of Jerusalem today. Neither will the fire of hell be unending.

Destroying sin, sinners, and Satan is the only way to make the universe safe for eternity.

14. What is God's real purpose in hellfire?

"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." Matthew 25:41. "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15. "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be." "The enemies of the Lord ... shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalms 37:10, 20.

Answer:***God's purpose is that hell will destroy the devil and all sin and sinners and make the world safe for eternity. One sinner, if left on this planet, would be a deadly virus forever threatening the universe. It is God's plan to isolate sin and blot it out of existence for all time.

Eternal Hell Would Perpetuate Sin
An eternal hell of torment would perpetuate sin and make its eradication impossible. An eternal hell of torment is not part of God's great plan at all. Such a horrible theory is slander against the holy name of a loving God. The devil delights to see our loving Creator pictured as such a monstrous tyrant, and he alone can benefit from such teachings.

Eternal Hell a Man-made Theory
The "eternal hell of torment" theory originated not from the Bible, but from misguided people who were (perhaps inadvertently) led of the devil. And, incidentally, no one will be in heaven because he feared hell. People are saved because they love and obey Christ.


Jesus will be deeply saddened when He must destroy those whom He died to save.

15. Isn't the work of destroying sinners foreign to God's nature?

"As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die?" Ezekiel 33:11. "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." Luke 9:56. "For the Lord shall rise up ... that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act." Isaiah 28:21.

Answer:***Yes, the work of God has always been to save rather than destroy. The work of destroying the wicked in hellfire is so foreign to God's nature that the Bible calls it His "strange act." God's great heart will ache at the destruction of the wicked. Oh, how diligently He works to save every soul! But if one spurns His love and clings to sin, God will have no choice but to destroy the sinner with his sin when He rids the universe of that horrible, malignant growth called "sin" in the fires of the last day.


After sinners are destroyed, God will create a fantastic new earth for His people, where they will live in peace, joy, and love forever. Sin will never rise again.

16. What are God's post-hell plans for the earth and His people?

"He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9. "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Isaiah 65:17. "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain." Revelation 21:3, 4.

Answer:***After hellfire goes out, God will create a new earth and restore it to His peoplewith all the beauties and glories of Eden before sin entered. The horrors of sin and the past will be forgotten. Pain, death, tragedy, woe, tears, sickness, disappointment, sorrow, and all sin will be banished forever.

Sin Will Not Rise Again
God promises that sin will never rise again. His people will be filled with perfect peace, love, joy, and contentment. Their lives of complete happiness will be far more glorious and thrilling than mere words could ever describe. The real tragedy of hell is in missing heaven. A person who fails to enter this magnificent kingdom has made the saddest choice of a lifetime.

 

[Shimmie]

Wow sweetvi ...

Okay, I have take the time to read your posts and then 'think'... and of course pray before I answer.

I have to also call on some extra help here.

Nice & Wavy
pebbles
Iwanthealthyhair67
donna894
BlackPearl1967
Sashaa08
Galadriel
Belle Du Jour
Supergirl
mrselle
momi
BlackHairDiva
MrsHaseeb

Don't get mad at me for tagging you beautiful sisters. I'm just not gonna tackle this one alone. Nah-uh...

I know I've missed some names and some good ones too...

It's late and I'm sleepy.

I will be back, though...
:blowkiss:

 

[Poohbear]

Hey sweetvi. I learned this about Hell from doing my own study as well. So many people think that when we die, we immediately go to either Heaven or Hell. That's not the case. The souls of the people who have already died are resting in their graves. No one is in Heaven or Hell yet (well actually the Lake of Fire yet since Hell is actually the grave). When Jesus returns, the dead shall rise. After Judgement Day, those who are not in the Book of Life will be thrown in the Lake of Fire with the devil and hell. God will destroy this world and create a new heaven and a new earth for those who are in the Book of Life.

 

[lilikoi]

Thank you for this post!

 

[sweetvi]

Shimmie. Thanks. I could not remember everyone?! I need all the force because now I'm questioning all of stories and testimonies of people who have gone on and seen hell.

 

[sweetvi]

Poohbear


Thank you girl...I finally understood and accepted this but the thing that threw me for a loop.....!??????? Is the fire everlasting? Do people burn in Hell forever? Is the fire meant to just destroy devil and the sinners and turn them into ashes? This has really got me confuseddddd!

Everyone is welcomed to respond and scriptures would be just as good. I'm going to study more!

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear

Thank you girl...I finally understood and accepted this but the thing that threw me for a loop.....!??????? Is the fire everlasting? Do people burn in Hell forever? Is the fire meant to just destroy devil and the sinners and turn them into ashes? This has really got me confuseddddd!

Everyone is welcomed to respond and scriptures would be just as good. I'm going to study more!

No problem!

I was also taught the same thing as you. But after learning this on my own, it makes much more sense of the Bible than what was taught in church and from what church folks would say.

From reading the Book of Revelation, it seems like the fire is not everlasting. I looks like the fire comes to an end. When something is destroyed or burnt up, that's it. The fire eventually goes out and ashes remain.

I've only seen the phrase "eternal fire" used once in the bible. But I believe the use of this phrase means "eternal separation from God", not burning for eternity.

Here's the verse... Jude 1:7 - "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

I thought about how God destroyed the world once with the great flood in the Old Testament. I'm sure there were some wicked people who drowned in the flood. When a person drowns, they don't keep drowning forever and ever. Once their lungs are filled up with water and they can no longer breathe in oxygen, that's it. Once they have drowned, they are lifeless.

 

[sweetvi]

Mark 9:48

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[Galadriel]

God created man and woman in His image (Genesis 1:27). What does this mean? It means God created us with a rational soul--we have the free will to choose God and love Him.

The soul and body are not the same thing. A human being is body + soul. The body is physical (our head, limbs, organs, etc.) and the soul is immaterial. Death is the separation of soul and body.

Scripture shows us that we continue to exist after death:

Luke 23:43 [Jesus to the thief on the cross who died on the same day as Him] And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

2 Corinthians 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Revelation 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;

1 Peter 3:18-20 Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison—those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat.

Mark 9:2-6 Six days later Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up a high mountain to be alone. As the men watched, Jesus’ appearance was transformed, and his clothes became dazzling white, far whiter than any earthly bleach could ever make them. Then Elijah and Moses appeared and began talking with Jesus. Peter exclaimed, “Rabbi, it’s wonderful for us to be here! Let’s make three shelters as memorials—one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” He said this because he didn’t really know what else to say, for they were all terrified.


So clearly if our souls go on to exist after death, what happens to them? Sleeping is a biological function, not a spiritual one. When the Scriptures speak of someone "falling asleep," it is a euphemism for death (since the dead person looks as if asleep). Hebrews 9:27 tells us "It is appointed for men to die once, and then comes the judgment." From some of the verses just quoted, we can also see that souls are aware of their existence after death, and that things happen to them.

What is Hell?

Hell is the place and state of being where the souls of the damned receive justice. The punishments of Hell are:

1. Separation from God, and the inability to see Him and enjoy Him.

2. Sensory torments (i.e., hell fire, the stench, darkness).

3. Regret or remorse, knowing that the soul while alive on earth had freely chosen to reject God and love sin (note: this is not the same as repentance, for the damned lack sanctifying grace and cannot repent)

4. The knowledge that Hell is eternal and one's condition can never change.

Is Hell really eternal?

Yes.

Jude 12-13 These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

2 Thessalonians 1:5-9 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Mark 9:42-48 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea. “If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire, [where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.] “If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell, [where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.] “If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.


It is also interesting to note that the 1st and 2nd Century Christians understood this as well:

Ignatius of Antioch (Overseer, disciple of John the Apostle)
Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire, and so will anyone who listens to him (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2 [A.D. 110]).

Clement (Overseer, disciple of Peter the Apostle)
If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).

Justin Martyr (2nd Century Christian Apologist)
No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).

[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons (ibid. 52).

Are there demons in Hell? Yes.

2 Peter 2:4 For God did not spare even the angels who sinned. He threw them into hell, in gloomy pits of darkness, where they are being held until the day of judgment.

 

[sweetvi]

Galadriel


Thanks...!

2 peter 2:4. Touched me. Now it seems they are chained up but what about the demons who are doing the dirty work on earth

 

[momi]

Good Morning Ladies!

I'm at work today but will definitely check back in with a more detailed reply however just with a glance I cannot say that I agree with 9 & 10.


I believe hell is eternal as is it's fire and also to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord. Secondly, if we only "sleep" then how would we explain the rich man and Lazarus account. Although at that time it was Abraham's boosom they were both aware of their present state. Anyway - my opinions will have to be validated with scripture of course so I'll check in later.

Ladies - have a wonderful day!

 

[AtlantaJJ]

Thank you so much sweetvi for tagging me! Wow, this is going to take some study and prayer.

You brought this question to the right place! This is an excellent thread and an opportune time for this study because it's Holy Week.

 

[AtlantaJJ]

Mark 9:48

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

This is listed 3 times! Mark 9:44; Mark 9:46 and Mark 9:48.

That's a lot of emphasis there, where it's said 3 times in a row.

 

[MrsHaseeb]

Interesting topic. Thanks for the tag Shimmie.

 

[Iwanthealthyhair67]

I'm at work too, so I'll be in out during the day that will give me time to read all the posts...this can make great conversation and there is so much to learn here..gonna get me my morning java (not from you know who I might add).

 

[Galadriel]

@Galadriel


Thanks...!

2 peter 2:4. Touched me. Now it seems they are chained up but what about the demons who are doing the dirty work on earth

Yes, Scripture also shows us that some evil spirits do roam the earth. We see examples in the exorcisms performed by Jesus and His disciples.

 

[Galadriel]

This is listed 3 times! Mark 9:44; Mark 9:46 and Mark 9:48.

That's a lot of emphasis there, where it's said 3 times in a row.

Some people are surprised to learn that Jesus speaks about Hell more than anyone else in the Bible (around 33 times).

 

[sweetvi]

Galadriel

Thank you so much for your reply. I listed that scripture in reference to that the fire is everlasting? Other says the worms never die

 

[Galadriel]

@Galadriel

Thank you so much for your reply. I listed that scripture in reference to that the fire is everlasting? Other says the worms never die

Yes, sweetvi it says the fire is unquenchable and the worm never dies.

The unquenching fire = the pain of sense

The undying worm = the pain of loss (i.e., the undying "worm of conscience," or remorse)

 

[sweetvi]

Oh okay sort of making sense. I'm still going to continue to pray. Thanks!! Can't wait to hear other responses

 

[blazingthru]

Shimmie. Thanks. I could not remember everyone?! I need all the force because now I'm questioning all of stories and testimonies of people who have gone on and seen hell.

WoW!!! thats really all I can say. I am so glad to see your post and to see that some one else got it. Yeah, so exciting doing my happy dance.

 

[blazingthru]

But what about that worm which dieth not? Many have read the words of Jesus about hell, "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:45, 46. Some have interpreted the worm to be the soul. Is that what Jesus meant? Nowhere in the Bible is there any allusion to the soul as a worm.

In this instance Jesus used the word "Gehenna" for the word "hell." It so happened that Gehenna was an actual place of burning just outside the walls of Jerusalem. No doubt, Christ's listeners could see the smoke curling up from the Valley of Gehenna, where dead bodies and garbage were constantly being burned. If anything fell outside the destructive flames, it was quickly consumed by maggots or worms. With the vivid scenes of utter extinction before their eyes, Jesus used the Gehenna fire as an example of the complete destruction of hell-fire. The fire was never quenched, and the worms were constantly at work upon the bodies-a picture of total destruction.

Perhaps the most easily misconstrued text about hell is John's allusion to the smoke ascending "for ever and ever." For those who are unfamiliar with other uses of this phrase in the Bible, it can be very confusing indeed. But a comparison of verses in both Old and New Testaments reveal that the words "for ever" are used 57 times in the Bible in reference to something that has already come to an end. In other words, "for ever" does not always mean "without end."

 

[blazingthru]

This is why the bible is so every exciting, you must study it. not just read it. Study brings new results and it shows your desire to draw closer to God and your desire to understand the words he is trying to tell you. If we study we begin to see there is a difference in the Term Hell and how often it is used. It simple means the grave. Hell is the grave. In the end this grave will be aflamed and all in it will turn to ash on its own time. You agree everything burns at different rates, so shall the wicked. Until Sin is forever removed from the earth.

 

[Galadriel]

The concept of a non-eternal Hell stems from early heresies which often rejected the immortality of the soul.

Many admit the existence of hell, but deny the eternity of its punishment. Conditionalists hold only a hypothetical immortality of the soul, and assert that after undergoing a certain amount of punishment, the souls of the wicked will be annihilated. Among the Gnostics the Valentinians held this doctrine, and later on also Arnobius, the Socinians...
(Catholic Encyclopedia)

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

The Latin infernus ( inferum, inferi ), the Greek Hades , and the Hebrew sheol correspond to the word hell .

Infernus is derived from the root in ; hence it designates hell as a place within and below the earth.

Haides , formed from the root fid , to see, and a privative, denotes an invisible, hidden, and dark place; thus it is similar to the term hell .

The derivation of sheol is doubtful. It is generally supposed to come from the Hebrew root meaning, "to be sunk in, to be hollow"; accordingly it denotes a cave or a place under the earth.

In the Old Testament ( Septuagint hades ; Vulgate infernus ) sheol is used quite in general to designate the kingdom of the dead, of the good ( Genesis 37:35 ) as well as of the bad ( Numbers 16:30 ); it means hell in the strict sense of the term, as well as the limbo of the Fathers. But, as the limbo of the Fathers ended at the time of Christ's Ascension, hades ( Vulgate infernus ) in the New Testament always designates the hell of the damned. Since Christ's Ascension the just no longer go down to the lower world, but they dwell in heaven ( 2 Corinthians 5:1 ).

However, in the New Testament the term Gehenna is used more frequently in preference to hades , as a name for the place of punishment of the damned. Gehenna is the Hebrew gê-hinnom ( Nehemiah 11:30 ), or the longer form gê-ben-hinnom ( Joshua 15:8 ), and gê-benê-hinnom ( 2 Kings 23:10 ) "valley of the sons of Hinnom". Hinnom seems to be the name of a person not otherwise known. The Valley of Hinnom is south of Jerusalem and is now called Wadi er-rababi. It was notorious as the scene, in earlier days, of the horrible worship of Moloch. For this reason it was defiled by Josias ( 2 Kings 23:10 ), cursed by Jeremias ( Jeremiah 7:31-33 ), and held in abomination by the Jews, who, accordingly, used the name of this valley to designate the abode of the damned (Targ. Jon., Gen., iii, 24; Henoch, c. xxvi). And Christ adopted this usage of the term. Besides Hades and Gehenna, we find in the New Testament many other names for the abode of the damned.

It is called "lower hell" ( Vulgate tartarus ) ( 2 Peter 2:4 ), "abyss" ( Luke 8:31 and elsewhere), "place of torments" ( Luke 16:28 ), "pool of fire" ( Revelation 19:20 and elsewhere), "furnace of fire" ( Matthew 13:42, 50 ), "unquenchable fire" ( Matthew 3:12 , and elsewhere), "everlasting fire" ( Matthew 18:8 ; 25:41 ; Jude 7 ), "exterior darkness" ( Matthew 7:12 ; 22:13 ; 25:30 ), "mist" or "storm of darkness" ( 2 Peter 2:17 ; Jude 13 ). The state of the damned is called "destruction" ( apoleia , Phil., iii, 19, and elsewhere), "perdition" ( olethros , 1 Timothy 6:9 ), "eternal destruction" ( olethros aionios , 2 Thessalonians 1:9 ), "corruption" ( phthora , Galatians 6:8 ), "death" ( Romans 6:21 ), "second death" ( Revelation 2:11 and elsewhere).

 

[Poohbear]

Mark 9:48

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Wow! This verse really changes things about whether or not the hell fire ends or keeps going. Verses 43, 44, 45, and 46 mentions that same phrase of the "fire is not quenched."

In my life applications bible, it mentions that Jesus pictured the serious and eternal consequences of sins, and to the Jews, worms and fire represented internal and external pain.

 

[blazingthru]

The concept of a non-eternal Hell stems from early heresies which often rejected the immortality of the soul.

Only speaking for myself and based on my study of the bible, Only God has Immortality. but look it up you will not find in the entire bible immortal soul. Because we do not have an immortal soul. Only God has Immortality.

Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10 The dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun [in this life]. ... For there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave.

Eternal life is a gift.

Ezekiel 18:4 (KJV 1900)
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Job 4:17 (KJV 1900)
17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his maker?

1 Timothy 6:15, 16 The King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:51–53 (KJV 1900)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible. must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. At the coming of the Lord all of this will happen not at death! but at the Last Trumpet. Now guest what.

Who is coming out of the graves? All men? Nope
1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV 1900)
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

I totally and completely reject the immortality of the soul, Immortality is a free gift from God for those who choose to be obedient and obey and follow his word. Not for those who are determine to be lost, are lost and will remain lost.

 

[Poohbear]

I came across this interesting site that talks about eternal hell fire. This site is claiming that the words "eternal" , "forever", or "everlasting" in reference to hell fire does not necessarily mean never ending....

http://www.helltruth.com/q-a/no-eternal-fire-but-yes-eternal-life.aspx

 

[Poohbear]

sweetvi Galadriel and others,

Here is a passage from another site about hellfire not being infinite and it explains Mark 9 as well:

It’s interesting to note that Jesus used this particular locale, and what usually occurred there, to help us understand the fate the wicked and unrepentant sinner will suffer in the future (Mark 9:47-48). This fiery punishment meant they will be consumed by the fire and not the eternal torment wrongly portrayed by Christianity throughout the ages. The text also referred to the worm that dieth not. However, the worm is not symbolic of sinners, but maggots among the garbage. No one is in Hell right now. Scriptures show that this Hellfire is to come (Daniel 12:1-12; John 5:25-29; 2 Peter 2:9; Revelation 20:13-15).

Various denominations have long held the view that Hell is an everlasting punishment based on Revelation 14:11, “…the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever;” Matthew 25:46, “…and these will go away into eternal punishment but the righteous into eternal life;” Revelation 20:10, “…the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire…and they will be tormented day and night forever;” Isaiah 34:5-10, “…the streams thereof shall become burning pitch…the smoke thereof shall go up forever and ever;” and Jude 13, “…to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.”

In all the passages above, the Greek word, aion translated ‘forever,’ does not mean eternity or infinity. Forever and ever simply means the object will continue to last as long as conditions permit-a limited time. The fire will burn until everything is consumed or destroyed.

Matthew 3:12; Mark 9:43; Luke 3:17; and Isaiah 34:10 speak of a fire that shall never be quenched. When we look at the Greek for unquenchable, we realize Jesus was simply saying that the fire will burn until the bodies of the wicked are consumed. An unquenched fire is one that has not been extinguished. It burns itself out when it consumes everything and has no more combustible material to keep it going. Ezekiel 20:47 speaks of fire that consumes entirely. In Jeremiah 17:27, Yahweh said he would kindle an unquenchable fire in Jerusalem. This was fulfilled in 2 Chronicles 36:19-21. Is Jerusalem still burning?

The following scriptures speak of eternal judgment: Jude 7, “…even as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them…suffering the vengeance of eternal fire;” Mattthew 25:46, “…these shall go into everlasting punishment;” Matthew 25:41, “…depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire;” Hebrews 6:2, “…resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment.”

In the above texts, the Greek for eternal is aionou, which means final and complete. Sodom and Gomorrah are not burning- they burnt to ash long ago (Matthew 11:23; 2 Peter 2:6). Eternal destruction means the consequence is eternal. Once you are burned up, you will not return (Psalms 104:35).

Source: http://www.prevailmagazine.org/is-there-an-eternal-hellfire/

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Let me know what you ladies think of this.