HELP - For those who use leave-in products with cones?

[naturalmanenyc]

I finally get it - I think with respect to moisturizing.

I have been using leave-in with cones and since cones seal in (and seal out) moisture, my daily moisturizing is doing NOTHING for my hair.

I have no issue with cones but it's clear that since I use them that I need to wash more often.

What are others doing?

If you use a leave-in with cones, do you moisturize and then add the leave-in? And does the leave-in "wear off" after a few days such that your moisturizer will "work" again. Or do you have to wash every few days when using cones?

Are there any good leave-ins without cones that still provide lots of slip?

Thanks!

 

[Dposh167]

giovanni direct leave-in is coneless ( i think)

I'm a VERY low cone user. I only allow them in conditioners & leave-ins. But u don't have to go down the path of a coneless leave-in just yet. I would just be more reluctant to buy leave-ins in which a cone is the second,third, or maybe 4th ingredient. There are a lot of leave-ins that read 1)water 2)cone. These are the ones i typically avoid b/c of the high level of cone in that product. If u still want to use cones, find a product that has a low dosage of cones in it. I do this, and the cones don't seem to get in the way of my moisture.

 

[blasiancurlie]

i use nexxus headress leave-in and i believe it's coneless (if i remember correctly). i'm not sure if i like it as a leave-in though. it's a bit watery and i don't really notice an extreme amount of moisturizing but sometimes i mix it with coconut oil and that seems to help out.

 

[ItsyBitsy]

Currently I'm using Aveda prep smoother as my leave in followed by Aveda Soothing Fluid or Brillian serum. All 3 contain cones.

I try to get most of my moisture from my DC sessions before applying my leave ins or serums.

I haven't noticed a problem with my hair letting moisture in after using cones. I normally moisturize 1 or 2 times a week between wash days.

I make sure to wash each week, I clarifying/chelate at least 2-3 times a month. My hair is going great! HTH

 

[Evazhair]

For me its the sera like silken seal that cause that problem. I can use alter ego , lacio lacio, salerm 21 and have no problem moisturizing my hair in between washes.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

I really think the cones are the culprit. I am getting lots of broken hairs this week despite mositurizing and adding my coconut oil.

Granted, I flat ironed on Tuesday (over a week ago) but I used so much Heat Protexx that I do not think the flat iron is the reason for the breakage. I also used FHI hot sauce which I suspect is also full of cones.

Yep - it's the FHI hot sauce
Water, cetearyl alcohol, amodimethicone, Cetyl Alcohol, Propylene Glycol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Dimethicone, Incroquat Behenyl, TMS, Shea Butter, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Cetrimonium Chloride, Silk Amino Acids, Algae Extract, Tetrasodium EDTA, Rosemary Extract, Witch Hazel Extract, Hydrozypropyl Guar, Jojoba Esters, DM Dm Hydantoin, Citric Acid, Fragrance, Contains Crystalized Jojoba.

 

[blasiancurlie]

I really think the cones are the culprit. I am getting lots of broken hairs this week despite mositurizing and adding my coconut oil.

Granted, I flat ironed on Tuesday (over a week ago) but I used so much Heat Protexx that I do not think the flat iron is the reason for the breakage. I also used FHI hot sauce which I suspect is also full of cones.

Yep - it's the FHI hot sauce
Water, cetearyl alcohol, amodimethicone, Cetyl Alcohol, Propylene Glycol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Dimethicone, Incroquat Behenyl, TMS, Shea Butter, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Cetrimonium Chloride, Silk Amino Acids, Algae Extract, Tetrasodium EDTA, Rosemary Extract, Witch Hazel Extract, Hydrozypropyl Guar, Jojoba Esters, DM Dm Hydantoin, Citric Acid, Fragrance, Contains Crystalized Jojoba.

Aww boo! I used the FHI hot sauce before i started to avoid cones and I really liked it!!! Thought about using it again but I had no idea it contained two cones that are way up on the list. Thanks for the info!

 

[naturalmanenyc]

Copied from BHM

http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=109930&PN=1


Cones List

Key:
Water Soluble
Somewhat Water Soluble
Not Water Soluble
Solubility Unknown

Not Water Soluble : Amodimethicone- Trimethylsilylamodimethicone- A non-curable amine silicone fluid for hair care products and decorative cosmetics. Provides water resistance.

Solubility Unknown : Amodimethicone (&) C11-15 Pareth-7 (&) Laureth-9 (&) Glycerin (&) Trideceth-12-
An amine functional micro-emulsion for clear, aqueous-based hair products.

Water Soluble : Amodimethicone (&) Trideceth-12 (&) Cetrimonium Chloride- Cationic emulsion for hair conditioning.

Somewhat Water Soluble : Behenoxy Dimethicone

Somewhat Water Soluble : Bisamino PEG/PPG-41/3 Aminoethyl PG-Propyl Dimethicone- Provides excellent hair conditioning without build-up. Ideal for use in products designed to treat colour, perm, sun and heat-damaged hair.

Solubility Unknown : Bis-Phenylpropyl Dimethicone- A colourless silicone fluid with high RI, low viscosity and volatility, shine enhancement and luxurious feel.

Solubility Unknown : C30-45 Alkyl Dimethicone- Superior compatibility with both silicones and organics. Can be used as a thickening agent which gives a unique silky skin feel.

Not Water Soluble : Cetearyl Methicone- A soft, waxy material; excellent lubricity and spreadability.

Not Water Soluble : Cetyl Dimethicone- Occlusive film forming for skin conditioners.

Cetyl PEG/PPG-15/15 Butyl Ether Dimethicone- A silicone emulsifier for use in the preparation of water-in-oil emulsions. Also offers good emulsification of paraffin oils and vegetable triglycerides.

Not Water Soluble : Cyclomethicone (&) PEG/PPG-20/15 Dimethicone- For formulating water-in-oil emulsions, particularly water-in-silicone emulsions. Excellent aesthetics.

Solubility Unknown : Cyclopentasiloxane- Cyclomethicone D5- Provides improved efficacy in antiperspirants and wet combing in hair conditioners.

Solubility Unknown : Cyclopentasiloxane (&) C30-45 Alkyl Cetearyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer- Provides a unique feeling during rub-in followed by a soft powdery feel for an extended period. Ideal for cream to powder formulations.

Somewhat Water Soluble : Cyclopentasiloxane (&) Cyclohexasiloxane- Available in three different proportions offering low viscosity, a relatively high volatility and a cyclic structure.

Somewhat Water Soluble : Cyclopentasiloxane (&) Dimethicone- The basis for hair serums. Conditioning without build up.

Solubility Unknown : Cyclopentasiloxane (&) Dimethicone/Vinyldimethicone Crosspolymer- An elastomer dispersion resulting in a smooth, highly viscous gel with a unique silky feel on application.

Somewhat Water Soluble : Cyclopentasiloxane (&) Dimethiconol- Provides a smooth, velvety feel without greasiness. Useful for skincare and hair conditioning.

Not Water Soluble : Cyclopentasiloxane (&) Trimethylsiloxysilicate- Silicone resin blended with Cyclopentasiloxane. Provides water resistance.

Somewhat Water Soluble : Cyclotetrasiloxane- Cyclomethicone D4- A volatile silicone for improving skin feel in applications such as anti-perspirants.

Solubility Unknown : DEA PG-Propyl PEG/PPG-18/21 Dimethicone- Enhances the performance of shampoos and conditioners with improved gloss, manageability and moisturizing properties.

Solubility Unknown : Diisostearoyl Trimethylolpropane Siloxy Silicate- Highly substantive to skin, has good lubricity and spreadability. Compatible with organic oils and waxes.

Water Soluble : Dimethicone Copolyol

 

[naturalmanenyc]

From Black Hair Media
http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=109930&PN=1

Not Water Soluble : Dimethicone (&) Laureth-4 (&) Laureth-23- Non-ionic silicone emulsion for 2-in-1 shampoos.

Not Water Soluble : Dimethicone (&) Trimethylsiloxysilicate- Water resistant, non-tacky film, ideal for sun screens.

Not Water Soluble : Dimethicone (from 1 to 1,000,000 cs)- The original silicone 'oil'. A complete range is available from the highly mobile 1-20 cs, the popular 50-500 cs and the heavier 1,000-1,000,000 cs.

Not Water Soluble : Dimethiconol (&) Sodium Dodecylbenzenesulphonate- An anionic emulsion for leave-in hair products. Disperses well in aqueous preparations and gives the hair good texture.

Not Water Soluble : Diphenyl Dimethicone- A heat-resistant silicone with good film-forming properties. Used as a skin conditioning and anti foaming agent.

Solubility Unknown : Disiloxane- Volatile replacement for ethanol in APs and aerosols.

Not Water Soluble : Hydrolyzed wheat protein/hydroxypropyl polysiloxane and cystine/silicone co-polymers- A combination of protein and silicones that posses a complex polymeric structure which cross-links on drying to form a conditioning and protective network providing protection against blow drying and heating. They also protect the hair against environmental pollutants as well as mechanical damage and can aid temporary repair of split ends.

Water Soluble : Lauryl Methicone Copolyol

Solubility Unknown : PCA Dimethicone- Functional over a broad pH range and offers excellent smoothing, conditioning and emolliency properties in many different applications.

Somewhat Water Soluble : PEG/PPG-20/15 Dimethicone- Previously referred to as Dimethicone Copolyol. A very versatile, water soluble polyether modified silicone for use in skin and hair products.

Somewhat Water Soluble : PEG-12 Dimethicone- Previously referred to as Dimethicone Copolyol. A very versatile, water soluble polyether modified silicone for use in skin and hair products.

Not Water Soluble : Phenyl Trimethicone- A very popular high gloss silicone for spray-on hair products. Also provides emolliency and water repellency in skin care products.

Not Water Soluble : Polysilicone-18 Cetyl Phosphate- Color-retaining conditioner for hair products. Also offers thermal protection and a slick, soft after-feel. Excellent solubility and compatibility with most surfactants.

Solubility Unknown : Silicone Resin Spheres (2, 5 & 6 micron)- Fine, white spherical particles give slip and lubricity in pressed and loose powders.

Not Water Soluble : Simethicone- A mixture of Dimethicone and hydrated silica, used as an antifoaming agent. Available in two grades.

Somewhat Water Soluble : Stearoxy Dimethicone

Not Water Soluble : Stearyl Dimethicone

Not Water Soluble : Trimethylsiloxysilicate- A solid silicone resin for decorative cosmetics. Provides water resistance.

Solubility Unknown : Trisiloxane- Anti foaming and skin conditioning agent

 

[naturalmanenyc]

From Black Hair Media
http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=109930&PN=1

Article
One of the first things an aspiring longhair learns is that s/he is using cones. "Huh What? What are cones?" might be one of the first question the (wannabe) longhair asks.
Cone is short for silicone - not to be confused with silicon (esp. important for our foreign members)! Silicones actually consist of silicon, but I'm not going to get more chemical than that.
Silicone refers to a group of chemicals which are very commonly used in beauty products, be it your face cream or your hair conditioner. They are hydrophobic, are used as sealants and to provide slip. Those of you who have tried a drugstore face cream (usually with silicones) and an organic cream in comparison know the difference.

Silicones come in different types and their names reflect the different chemical structures they can have. In the ingredient list, one can identify silicones usually rather easily. They are called "Amodimethicone", "Dimethicone", etc. and now you can see why they are often abbreviated with "cone". But a "Cyclopenthasiloxane" or a "Dimethiconol" can be a cone too. Those are the cones most commonly used and if a product doesn't contain one of them, it is likely that it doesn't contain any cones at all. There are other cones which, unfortunately, don't have as easy names, but since I can't find reliable sources I won't add them here. There is also a claim that says that there are "water soluble" and "non water soluble" cones but again, since I don't have reliable sources and since I wonder how "water soluble cones" are supposed to work, I omit that too.
Different cones have different qualities I'm not going into here either, but I wanted to mention that.
Guess you have to ask a chemist for all that...

The second thing an aspirant longhair learns is that cones are the evil. Usually, the advice goes along the lines of: "You are using [insert popular drugstore brand here], which is full of cones - you should switch to products without them".
Aspirant longhairs do that and their results usually are pretty good with their new routine. The tale about the cone-devil is therefore true.
Is it?
Usually the people do change more than just their products, so the good results they see afterwards are not necessarily caused by the fact that they now stopped using cones but because of many different factors which all benefit the health of the hair. Still, many many people believe in the evil of the cones and it causes quite a bit confusion among wannabe longhairs which is why I write this article in the first place.

To understand the thing with the cones, one has to know what cones are designed for and what they do.
Cones are widely popular and can be found in a very large selection of hair care products. They have many different purposes. In shampoos, they help provide slip, so it gets easier to massage the shampoo in. In conditioners, they help with detangling the hair, keeping static down and preventing breakage by smoothing down the surface of the hair which also provides shine.
It is also said that cones are able to glue split ends (temporarily!) back together.

Sounds good, doesn't it? Where's the catch?
The problem with silicones is the fact that they aren't water soluble. It varies a bit from cone to cone, but as far as I know, all require a detergent of some kind to get removed from the hair. Some cones might require a sulfate shampoo for that, other can get removed with milder cleansers as well. It seems that this is depends on the hair itself a bit, but as you surely know, when you want to grow your hair long, it is recommended that you stop using shampoo on the length of your hair. Therefore the silicones don't get removed anymore, since only water or conditioner aren't strong enough. If you now keep applying cones to the hair, you'll inevitably get "build-up". The cones build up (hence the name) on the hair and will lock out moisture from the hair shaft. The hair will dry out, gets tangly and dull - just what you didn't want! Some people also claim that silicones "hide" the damage you are doing to your locks, so you don't know how bad it actually is until it is too late. I don't believe that, but I don't want to conceal that I'm in a minority with that.

So cones are evil after all!?
Well, the answer isn't quite as easy.
The speed in which the cones will build up on the hair varies greatly from person to person and from the products used (amount of silicones in them / type of silicone - -remember, the higher an ingredient stands on the ingredient list, the more of it it contains). For me, it takes ages - I think about 6 months or so. For other people, one application is enough and their hair is gunky.
Also, if you get build up it doesn't mean that you have to stop using cones for good - you can usually clarify the hair (for instructions how to do this look through the forums) and all is well again.

The direct opponent of the silicones are (vegetable) oils. Oils are very popular among long haired people because they address the disadvantages of the silicones. Oils can build up on the hair too, but 1) you'll notice that right away (because your hair is greasy ) and 2) oils are very easy to remove. Depending on the kind of oil (lighter oils are easier, heavier oils are harder to remove) all it takes is a good CO and the build up is gone, which is much easier on the hair than clarifying it.
Still, some people report problems when using oils. The hair gets crunchy and dry instead of soft and silky. I suspect that the application on dry hair is the problem here - the hair itself doesn't have enough moisture in it and the oil locks further moisture out. In contrast to that, silicones are usually applied on wet hair, so it is ensured that there is plenty of moisture which is locked in. Still, on some people's hair, even the application on damp/wet hair does no good.

To sum it up - the pros and cons of cones, which might or might not be true for everyone:

Pro:
- provides slip
- prevents tangles and breakage as a result
- makes the hair shiny
- locks moisture into the hair

Contra:
- is likely to build up on the hair
- cannot be removed without detergents
- can lock moisture out of the hair (obviously...)
- might not work for everyone

To use cones or not frequently ends up in heated discussions (not here of course!) where one side wins and the other loses. But, as is everything in hair care, it is completely up to you and what your hair likes - there is no ultimate answer which is true for everyone!
Maybe you prefer oils, maybe you prefer cones and maybe you like to use both, alternating or together. Don't be scared away from either one by people who don't like oils/cones for various reasons.

 

[Soliel185]

I apply leave-ins on damp to wet hair. If my hair is dry or I'm re-moisturizing I spritz it with a combo of SAA, Aloe Gelly, Filtered Water, Glycerine and Rosemary EO then layer my leave in and seal with oil.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

I apply leave-ins on damp to wet hair. If my hair is dry or I'm re-moisturizing I spritz it with a combo of SAA, Aloe Gelly, Filtered Water, Glycerine and Rosemary EO then layer my leave in and seal with oil.

This is genius!!! I never considered spritzing my hair with water (or anything for that matter) in order to remoisturize. I always just plop on moisturizer on my dry hair. I do think I reached cone overload with the FHI hot sauce and cones in my leave-in so I will wash tomorrow. I will also try the spritz with water idea this coming week.

Thanks!

 

[naturalmanenyc]

bumping for the newbies with questions about cones

 

[nurseN98]

I've just started using sabino mb or fantasia hair polisher (gotta stretch that sabino..kinda pricey) as a sealer. I either leave-in some conditioner or use a leave-in then I just seal with it. These are purely cones, but water penetrates so I just spritz some water daily and i'm good to go. I've only done it for a few weeks but so far, so good. And now my detangling sessions go sooooo much quicker and better.

 

[sharifeh]

this is a great and useful thread
bumping

 

[grow]

bumping for the newbies with questions about cones

THANKS, NATURALMANENYC!

i'm a newbie (jan, 2010) and wondering:

which cones are alright for our hair?

someone told me there ARE cones that simply rinse off, right?

Thank you!!!

 

[Rocky91]

THANKS, NATURALMANENYC!

i'm a newbie (jan, 2010) and wondering:

which cones are alright for our hair?

someone told me there ARE cones that simply rinse off, right?

Thank you!!!

disclaimer: you could probably consider me a newbie too, so take my "advice" at your own risk.
to answer your questions, on the first page of this thread, naturalmanenyc posted some info on the different types of cones.

However, it's important to remember that not everyone needs to be cone free. personally, I like the water repellent, sealing properties of cones-they seal in and block out additional moisture. I get my moisture from my weekly/biweekly DC's, and when i add cones to my hair, it seals in that moisture and smooths my strands.
it really depends on what works best for you.

 

[grow]

disclaimer: you could probably consider me a newbie too, so take my "advice" at your own risk.
to answer your questions, on the first page of this thread, naturalmanenyc posted some info on the different types of cones.

However, it's important to remember that not everyone needs to be cone free. personally, I like the water repellent, sealing properties of cones-they seal in and block out additional moisture. I get my moisture from my weekly/biweekly DC's, and when i add cones to my hair, it seals in that moisture and smooths my strands.
it really depends on what works best for you.

THANKS ROCKY91!
it had been so long since i'd seen it, i'd completely forgotten that list!

this IS a difficult choice to make but i'm glad you've already found what works for you!

hhj!

 

[Taina]

I've been reading about silicones as well. I found this post from a CG user/ex-user and she list the goos and bad cones

Not water soluble (Will buildup in hair)
1. Cetearyl methicone
2. Cetyl dimethicone
3. Cyclopentasiloxane
4. Dimethicone
5. Dimethiconol
6. Stearyl dimethicone
7. Trimethylsilylamodimethicone

Slightly soluble (May cause buildup in hair but some have found will still wash out with cowash)
1. Amodimethicone
2. Cyclomethicone
3. Behenoxy dimethicone
4. Stearoxy dimethicone

“CG approved” Water Soluble (Will not buildup)
1. Dimethicone copolyol
2. Hydrolyzed wheat protein hydroxypropyl polysiloxane
3. Lauryl methicone copolyol
4. Silicones with PEG listed before it

You can see the full post in here She is not black, but the have a giant list of products with no-cones that we can also use. I reallu suggest to check her out, the list of products are in the left side of the blog

 

[grow]

thank you; Taina!!!