Clarify or Chelate??

[natieya]

How do you know which to do? I have been using Kenra Clarifying because it also chelates. I think we have hard water here, so that's why I chose it. Anyway, does baking soda chelate?

I always follow up with a moisturizing shampoo and moisturizing conditioner. TIA, ladies!

 

[glamazon386]

I thought they meant the same thing?

 

[~*~ShopAholic~*~]

I would rather just use the chealating poo since it gets the inside and out. I never use a clarifying poo anymore, but I still do ACV rinses on the regular. I haven't tried baking soda yet.

 

[GeorginaSparks]

The only thing that will chelate is a chelating shampoo. ACV or Baking soda do not chelate. I have hard water too, i tried baking soda and ACV when i first started my hair journey and after a few uses my hair felt better with the kenra clarifying than it did with either baking soda or ACV so ive stuck with kenra for 2 years now with no probs

 

[natieya]

The only thing that will chelate is a chelating shampoo. ACV or Baking soda do not chelate. I have hard water too, i tried baking soda and ACV when i first started my hair journey and after a few uses my hair felt better with the kenra clarifying than it did with either baking soda or ACV so ive stuck with kenra for 2 years now with no probs

I've been using the Kenra also because of HoneyDew. I shall continue with it then. Thanks so much!

 

[Starr1]

Clarifying removes product buildup from the hair (generally from the surface) and chelating breaks the chemical bonds from the hair (deep in the cortex).

Very rarely does the hair NEED to chelated.


From the article written by Lady Godiva on LHC:

One can choose to purchase a Clarifying shampoo. If doing so, be sure to look for that term on the label, and be forewarned there is a thing known as Chelating Shampoo. If interested in clarifying, do not purchase a chelating shampoo with that term on the label. Chelating Shampoo goes deeper, working at the level of the cortex of hair, and removes chemical bonds from the hair strand. For example, in salons to prepare the hair for coloring or perming, the hair is washed with a chelating shampoo. Here is a link I wrote some time ago about clarifying and chelating. This is an interesting thread to read because this individual needed to Chelate Shampoo, an unusual situation, indeed.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/...0&page=3&pp=15
On this site, under SnowyMoon (she began the thread), titled What Do I Do? #36 (also see #37, #40, #41 (on page three, scroll down) (for those who don't know, each person's response is assigned a number by LHC and it shows in the upper right corner. (Miss SnowyMoon subsequently responded under another thread about myself and Don being right, she needed chelating. You will know what this statement means once the whole thread is read.)

In some buildup situations, one might need to Clarify Shampoo two times, remotely possible a third. If one thinks they need to Chelate, it's important to start by Clarifying first to be sure. If unsure, try two times of clarifying before thinking about going to chelating. Some people know what they're after, so in this case do what you know to do...but don't just go to chelating if you are unsure. Proceed in a stage by stage manner.

In both clarifying and chelating, these really remove the oils off the hair and leave the strands very vulnerable, perhaps a bit brittle-y if not conditioned well, and certainly fly away and crispy sounding during detangling (once the hair is dry. By this I don't mean detangle dry hair only although that's an important concept; no, I mean once clarifying or chelating is complete, if the hair isn't conditioned immediately in that session and allowed to air dry (or dry how ever) then the hair might sound crispy or crackly during detangling, once dry).

There are other home recipes to create to clarify. They abound on these boards, but the recipe above works very reliably and does not damage hair when conditioned immediately.

CAUTION: If one has permed hair, a perm they care about, consult with a hair care professional about chelating, for sure, and quite likely it would be prudent to do so about clarifying, as well. A clarify shampoo should not upset a permanent or color, but it never hurts to double check with a hair care professional.

Hope this thread helps get the word out what the purpose of an ACV rinse is and what clarify means and what is necessary to break through the bond of grime, oil, sebum, product to the surface of the hair.

heidi w.

The full article is located at: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=26643&highlight=chelate


The rest of the article goes into detail about what an ACV rinse really does and why we use them, using baking soda to clarify, and so on.

HTH,
Starr

 

[HoneyDew]

One good thing is that the Kenra is pretty mild. I do one lather with it with every wash. It doesn't even suds up that much for that lathering.

 

[MizAvalon]

I thought they meant the same thing?

So did I. I learn something new every day around here.

 

[Evazhair]

"chelating breaks the chemical bonds from the hair (deep in the cortex)"


In shampoo, the bonds that a chelating agent, i.e EDTA , or any other chelating ligand would break is an outer cortex hair-Mg, or hair-Ca (magnesium,calcium respectively, positively charged ion) bond, to form i.e. Ca-EDTA, which is the favored product, which will be rinsed away.The ligands are chosen such that they will not break the undesirable bonds, under the conditions of shampooing. Chelating ligands are in negatively charged forms when active in this way, so a chelating ligand will not remove chlorine from the hair, as Cl-(negatively charged base) will not bond with the negatively charged basic form of EDTA
The reaction is pH dependent. Chelating shampoos are formulated to work in a pH range that occurs in shampooing. For a chelating shampoo on the market to acutally destroy your hair, you would have to have a large excess of the chelating agent(a ridiculous amount of chelating shampoo), under specific "extreme"(temp, pressure, pH,oxidation states) conditions, i.e. for EDTA alone, extremely basic. Under these conditions, the least of your worries would be "broken" hair. Such a formulation wouldn't even be made, let alone make it out of the testing phase.

 

[GeorginaSparks]

"chelating breaks the chemical bonds from the hair (deep in the cortex)"


In shampoo, the bonds that a chelating agent, i.e EDTA , or any other chelating ligand would break is an outer cortex hair-Mg, or hair-Ca (magnesium,calcium respectively, positively charged ion) bond, to form i.e. Ca-EDTA, which is the favored product, which will be rinsed away.The ligands are chosen such that they will not break the undesirable bonds, under the conditions of shampooing. Chelating ligands are in negatively charged forms when active in this way, so a chelating ligand will not remove chlorine from the hair, as Cl-(negatively charged base) will not bond with the negatively charged basic form of EDTA
The reaction is pH dependent. Chelating shampoos are formulated to work in a pH range that occurs in shampooing. For a chelating shampoo on the market to acutally destroy your hair, you would have to have a large excess of the chelating agent(a ridiculous amount of chelating shampoo), under specific "extreme"(temp, pressure, pH,oxidation states) conditions, i.e. for EDTA alone, extremely basic. Under these conditions, the least of your worries would be "broken" hair. Such a formulation wouldn't even be made, let alone make it out of the testing phase.

Thanks.....if its breaking down the bonds in the hair, i dont think they would put it on the shelves.

 

[Starr1]

Thank you Evazhair for clarifying!

 

[joemerald]

FYI Phormula 7, Mizani's Neutralizing Shampoo is for Neutrlizing and Chelating. It says that Chelating properties of the shampoo helps fight against mineral buildup to help minimize dullness in hair. I am sure it is effective when use no-lyes to help minimize the calcium buildup.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

^bumping because I. HAD. NO. IDEA.

 

[Artemis]

Very informative

 

[lawdiva]

This is some real HAIR SCIENCE!!! I loooove it! I would NEVER know this stuff otherwise. This is so freeking amazing:superbanana: This is some very helpful hair information. It is really sad how long I was in the dark about my hair.

 

[Artemis]

Bumping for Amarech

 

[Lovelylocs]

OP, you shampoo w/a clarifying shampoo and then shampoo w/a moisturizing shampoo? Why? Isn't that too much shampoo? That seems more drying to me. I think it would probably be better to just clarify and then deep condition.

 

[apemay1969]

One good thing is that the Kenra is pretty mild. I do one lather with it with every wash. It doesn't even suds up that much for that lathering.

I'm on my way out this evening to get some Kenra products - moisturizing shampoo, conditioner, leave in. I noticed that my hair seems strong but it's breaking - alittle protein overload for sure. I did my first relaxer on natural hair after 6 years in October and I'm worried about calcium deposits also because even after two dc's, my hair is still hard. I don't know if it's the products or what. Should I wait until after my touchup to chelate or what? My head hurts from all this information.erplexed

Anywho, how drying is the chelating shampoo that I'm definitely going to buy tonight?

 

[LadyZ]

 

[Esq.2B]

OP, you shampoo w/a clarifying shampoo and then shampoo w/a moisturizing shampoo? Why? Isn't that too much shampoo? That seems more drying to me. I think it would probably be better to just clarify and then deep condition.

I was wondering the same thing.

Any takers?

 

[DMJ's Mom]

Can somebody please explain the difference between the two? Maybe its just me but it seems like chelating as a more thorough version of clarifing erplexed